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Leanne Claxson  
#1 Posted : 23 April 2025 10:48:12(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Leanne Claxson

Hello,

I was hoping to get some thoughts/opinions and some general advise for a discussion around propped open fire doors. Obviously, we all know this is a no-no for serveral reasons, however, when I observed this happening today, I spoke with the team involved and their Line Manager as to why an external fire door was being propped open and was met with the following:

*used to help ventilation (no windows and air con can be hard to meet everyones needs).

This is not a good enough reason in my opinion but it wasn't until I had a further discussion with the Line Manager that I started to question myself!

The Line Manager said they'd understand if it was an internal fire door but questioned why an external fire door could not be left open; if the fire starts from within and they'd exit through that door anyway (the door is directly in their working area) and would shut it on exit.

I've explained the basics of why and we had discussed alternative ways to support the heating issue - which will be discussed with the Site Manager.

But the Line Managers response stumped me a little and had me question if I was wrong, due to it being an external fire door and not an internal. I don't think I am but I'd like to come better prepared if this is again questioned when discussed with the Site Manager.

I'd love your thoughts and opinions (more importantly where specifically it may define the differences legally, as I can't seem to find a clear definition - I just find 'fire doors').

Many thanks,

Roundtuit  
#2 Posted : 23 April 2025 11:08:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Is it an actual certified Fire Door with a stated approval period FD30 etc or (more likely) has it been designated as a Fire Exit?

As a Fire Exit it should not be locked, readily opened and other than wear and tear issues associated with all propped doors it is then no different to any other access & egress point within the building.

Even within a building it is permissible to "hold open" fire doors e.g. in hotel corridors providing they automatically close in the event of fire.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC)
Roundtuit  
#3 Posted : 23 April 2025 11:08:19(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Roundtuit

Is it an actual certified Fire Door with a stated approval period FD30 etc or (more likely) has it been designated as a Fire Exit?

As a Fire Exit it should not be locked, readily opened and other than wear and tear issues associated with all propped doors it is then no different to any other access & egress point within the building.

Even within a building it is permissible to "hold open" fire doors e.g. in hotel corridors providing they automatically close in the event of fire.

thanks 2 users thanked Roundtuit for this useful post.
peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC), peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC)
Kate  
#4 Posted : 23 April 2025 11:12:32(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Kate

Well the first question is whether it is a fire door, or just a fire exit.  This is a very common confusion of terminology.

If it's just a fire exit, then there is not usually a fire-related reason for it not to be kept open.  The reason for not doing this would typically be security.

Most external fire exits are just fire exits and not fire doors.  That is, they are part of an escape route, but are not required to function as fire resisting doors to limit the spread of fire and smoke.

Sometimes an external fire exit is also designed as a fire resisting door and does have a function in limiting the spread of fire and smoke.  This could be the case for example if the door opens on to an external staircase that also has at least one other exit door opening on to it, so that the external staircase needs to be protected during evacuation.

thanks 1 user thanked Kate for this useful post.
peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC)
peter gotch  
#5 Posted : 23 April 2025 11:49:33(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
peter gotch

Hi Leanne

To add to what Roundtuit and Kate have said, there is always the possibility that someone has put a sign on this door "FIRE DOOR - KEEP CLOSED" when the sign is not actually needed but was good for the sales targets of the company who provided it.

So, it might be that there isn't actually a reason why it needs to be kept closed and that you should review the signage.

Leanne Claxson  
#6 Posted : 23 April 2025 12:56:49(UTC)
Rank: New forum user
Leanne Claxson

Thank you everyone for your responses - that has made things more clearer for me!

I'll need to go confirm if the door is just a fire exit or serves also as a fire-resistant door but now I can go back and discuss further with the Line Manager and confirm his questioning may actually be correct!

Your quick responses have honestly helped me a lot - especially with confirming the confusion that can be made between fire doors and fire exits.

We also do have fire doors on site that have the hold-open option to aid equipment transportation between corridoors that have the automatic closes in the event of an alarm (which we test weekly), so that response is familiar to me.

I've only been involved in the H&S industry for a couple years and still learning, so I appreciate all the support I can get.

thanks 1 user thanked Leanne Claxson for this useful post.
peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC)
Alan Haynes  
#7 Posted : 23 April 2025 16:30:35(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Alan Haynes

If i understand correctly what is said in the original posting, the room has no windows and 'dodgy' provision of air conditioning.

Is the room fit to work in??????
Messey  
#8 Posted : 23 April 2025 19:12:05(UTC)
Rank: Super forum user
Messey

As Kate has said, most final exit doors have no requirement to be 'fire doors' or self closing. Having them held open for ventilation is unlikely to be an issue fire safety wise.

Its only where fire spread via that door may impinge on an escape route would a self closing fire door be needed

That is (for example):


Where a door is close or under an external staircase where fire and smoke would stop or delay an escape via the stairs

A final exit door opening onto a narrow alley which forms a single direction escape route past your final exit and where fire leaving via the door would make it impossible to pass

A final exit door that is located directly adjacent to another door or opening which forms a escape route for others

Where elevated pipework or cabling is directly above and externally to the final exit where fire from the final exit may damage those services resulting in obstruction of a means of escape

Where a cylinder store of other hazmat, or combustible external strage is opposite & close the final exit and fire may spread there cutting off a MoE

There's plenty of other scenarios


Pragmatism wins every time if you want to sell H&S and get the support of others. Knowing the role of any given fire door is essential if judgements on it's suitibility are to be made

Good luck 

thanks 1 user thanked Messey for this useful post.
peter gotch on 23/04/2025(UTC)
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