Posted By anon1234 I was going to add something to the thread about salaries (currently on page 2) but I think it must have been closed as I can't add a comment. In my experience a number of H&S practitioners have over inflated views of what they actually add to the business and think that just because they are in the important field of H&S they should have high salaries etc. I've seen many H&S people go about telling the business what they can't do and not how they ensure that things are done safely - obviously this does not apply to all those in H&S. There is also the question of market forces - if people are willing to provide H&S services for £20k a year why would a business want to pay £40k. Personally I think it is down to how the profession sells itself - or more to the point doesn't. How many employers really know the differnce between someone with a NEBOSH certificate, NVQ, BSc in H&S, postgraduate diploma, TechSP, CMIOSH, etc. etc.? Very few I suspect,. hence the very wide range of salaries on offer across all qualifications and grades of membership. Add to this the other H&S bodies such as BSC, RoSPA, etc and the issue becomes even more confused for employers - until there is a real common approach to these issues and they are simple and clear for employers to understand together with a straightforward approach to understanding the level of competence required (qualifications and experience, etc) then what chance do we have of ever getting this on a level playing field?

Posted By AJM Right I am sorry but I am going to have to disagree here. I have been with my current company 4 months. First day letter on desk asking why the company had not been in touch regarding an unreported RIDDOR and they had tried phone and letter and none too pleased. It ended up it was 14 months since the accident. I printed off and showed the directors a fine from HSE of 8000 pounds for one being 6 months overdue and explained the seriousness of this and going by those figures up to 15000 pounds fine. I liaised with appropriate authorities, proved we now have things in place to the HSE. And sorted the matter. I have also reduced accidents by 80% since the first month I was there. So on the HSE figures of it costing 1200 pounds for every accident I have saved them 5000 pounds a month, often unseen savings that nobody recognizes. So in my book that's a pretty penny 30k in 4 months I am contributing apart from the improved safety awareness and its knock on effects. I am not on anywhere near the top bracket you speak about either, but for a good safety man they are worth a lot more than people give us credit for. So as I say and always have said a good safety man is worth his weight in gold, only problem is most people don't recognize the fact and think it's fools gold. Alan.

Posted By Descarte Supply - Demand = high wages Given the huge amount of safety positions there are in the UK alone at the moment, qualified safety advisors must be in short supply, therefore companies who can afford it are able to push the envolope out to attract someone therefore other companies have to do the same to compete etc. This means then that people in government sector or in same position for a long time are probably are on less than others in private sector, Oil n gas or pharmaceutical

Posted By Mark Talbot Was the £17k job filled? I doubt they got anyone close to their requirements if it was. The original post mentioned H&S people who stop jobs, and H&S people who facilitate jobs. I fall into the latter and think it is worth more to a company that I can. Stella Artois went public with the slogan "Reassuringly expensive" you should look at companies in the reverse. If they are only paying £17k, do you really think you are walking into a good safety culture? Do you really want to even reply? Don't work for a cheap company, and don't work cheaply - unless it is for a very good cause. The electricians don't.

Posted By gham I take it you had a significant leap, The only way is up!

Posted By J Knight Anon1234 is a regular poster on this forum and really isn't trying to hide his identity; its just a nick. The problem with quantifying and valuing our work can be complex. The Charity I work for has a couple of halves. The Retail arm has historically been under-resourced and has run on a shoe-string, so H&S like everything else not directly geared to takings has been neglected; therefore there is scope for immediate impact on the part of the H&S bods. The Care half on the other hand has been well-regulated and well resourced for many years; I had very little to add to what they were already doing and had been doing for years. Yes, sure, there are things to improve, but no easy wins. So does the Care directorate need me? Yes, because my presence gives them confidence (especially the other day when HSE came to call; not an incident arising out of work was their conclusion) and actually helps them to say no to the regulators; but as to any impact I may be having on accidents/incidents in Healthcare, well that's another matter, John

Posted By J. Robin Gatenby From my experience, I would have to agree with many of the point raised. Having a BSc (Hon's) in Safety Health and Environmental Management, I worked in a private sector organisation and believe that I made significant changes. These had both practical and financial benefits for the organisation, which were rewarded, at least in part. Now working on contract roles, I know of a large public sector organisation who has been trying since early 2004 to recruit a "competent person" on a budget - consequently the quality of applications was very poor. The recruitment consultancy route did uncover some likely candidates but they all pulled out at the last minute with two getting better packages elsewhere. The organisation is multi site with some high-risk activities (chemicals, radiation, public access, etc, etc.) and expect one H&S specialist - (with Dip2 and min 3 years exp) to almost single handedly "manage" the service. The salary offered was around £30k (with few “benefits”) when a comparable organisation (in the same sector) and only a few mile away has a team of 6 (full and part-time) to do a comparable job. It was clear that the senior management did not appreciate the difference between (C)MIOSH or “working towards the NEBOSH Cert” (with no disrespect intended) or the various levels of qualifications and competencies. When arguments were raised for a more realistic salary that reflected the responsibility expected the response was "that’s an assistant directors salary"! In fairness, I do appreciate that particularly within the public sector salary have to fit within the overall salary structure and this is the crux of the problem. I would also have to agree with Garys’ comment about not turning down work… Only when senior management across all sectors follow Mr McKee and realise that safety should not be measured in terms of cost but of savings will real changes be seen and we will get the salary we deserve! Take care, RG