Posted By Paul Adams
Mark,
We use a training payback agreement with a sliding scale of return if the employer leaves within two years.
As you provided the training so the employee could complete his duties, I would suggest it's not recoverable, or you would have to resort to the courts which may not be worth the time and effort.
I am pretty sure you can't recover it without the employee's consent.

Posted By MarkJAWatkins
Great responses so far and more input is very much welcome.


Does anyone know or can quote any regs on this?


I really don't the gut to be £1,500 short on his last pay!


Thanks in advance. Mark

Posted By Alan Haynes
Found this on the 'tiscali.jobs' page

What deductions can my employer make from my pay?
Your employer is entitled to make deductions from wages for certain purposes and in certain circumstances. These fall into three main categories.


Deductions authorized by statute:
Income tax and national insurance contributions
Court or tribunal orders (although the latter must be agreed in advance in writing by the worker)



Deductions which can be permitted by the contract of employment:
Examples might include deductions to pay for fines for traffic offences committed when driving company vehicles, or damage to machinery caused by worker negligence. The circumstances in which deductions from wages are permitted must relate to matters arising after the worker has agreed to the deduction. Retrospective agreement would not make such deductions lawful. The employer must give the worker a written copy of that part of the contract of employment where the worker has agreed to such a deduction.

Sometimes employers will insist on written agreement before starting employment to deduct for loss of stock or money or breakages. Although this is permissible, the employer cannot deduct more than 10% of gross pay on any one day.


Deductions which can be covered by advance written agreement:
These include permission to deduct union subscriptions or payments to charity. The worker may withdraw his or her written agreement to such deductions.



It would appear from the above that if you deduct any money for fees your company could be in legal trouble

Posted By GJB
Here's a thought!

Is it not compulsory to provide PPE (free of charge) where necessary, to enable an employee to carry out his/her duties?

Is it also not a duty to provide training for that person to carry out the duties?

In no way am I a 'legal eagle' here, but I don't think the employer can deduct or indeed ask for any 'training monies' back. Any 'loyalty declaration' would be a gesture, I believe, than legally binding.

Posted By GPat
Employers can without a doubt ask for the money back IF it is written into the contract...the reason for this!!!...Why should an employer pay training fees, recuitment fees for that individual to sod off 3 months later after having £10k spent on them.

Its definately legal if its in writing

Posted By Alan Haynes
As in this case

"It is standard company policy that if you leave within a set time period you have to pay back a percentage of the costs - he did not sign the declaration to this"

I don't see how the company can be legally entitled to reclaim the money since there doesn't appear to be a contract in place with the employee for paying it back

Posted By GPat
They wont beable to in this case, but ultimately they can if they take the right approach

Posted By TBC
I once heard that a company can claim the costs of training employees through tax relief. Is this so?

Posted By GJB
You can indeed get grants! So come, on, let me do some training for you, it'll cost nothing with a grant!!

Oh no, I fear a beating arising for advertising!

I'm off to chastise myself in a private place!!

Posted By gham
Mark

refer you to employment Rights Act 1996 Section 15

Enjoy

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/a...acts1996/96018--b.htm#13

Posted By bec_batty
*joins queue to beat GJB.... armed with a baseball bat*

Posted By garyh
Why would anyone think that Management training is non essential? Are Managers born with the skills required to manage? Just think of all that monet I have wasted training my Managers and Supervisors!

Posted By GJB
Interesting thought on Management Training.

To become a Teacher, Doctor, Solicitor, Barrister, Accountant, or even a H & S advisor... You need to take qualifications.

How do people become Managers?... Normally because they are good at the job that they currently do or are 'next in line' in the office pecking order! They then get into a job... and fall flat on there face... because perhaps they haven't been trained!

So don't leave the poor managers out! Get them trained too... And just to ensure my post isn't removed 'Cos it doesn't follow the thread'... Think about training Managers in H & S too, free of charge! I am constantly amazed how many managers have not got any conception of H & S legislation!

Posted By Nigel Evans
I had an employee who left after he had trained as an asbestos surveyor. I deducted all his training fees from his final salary (it was in his contract that he would repay if he left within 1 year). He took me to an employment tribunal and lost the case, plus he had to pay travel costs of over £125.

Why do people think they have the right to get something for nothing!

Posted By MarkJAWatkins
RA & all others who have contributed to this thread.


Thanks for all your comments.


I am happy to announce that we did not take any monies from the employees last wage. We deemed that it was not in the best interests of the company to do this (it is a very small world) We decided that we could not put a price on staff morale and it would be better to take the hit on this.


I know this was not really a H&S issue but as most of the users on these forums deal with training issues that members would be better placed to answer the questions. I am glad that I have had such a response to what I thought would be a "slow" issue!


Unfortunatley, we in the asbestos industry and any other specialist industry have our members of staff poached on a regular basis. It is quite demoralising when someone that you have invested a great deal of time and effort, not to mention money, decides to up-sticks and leave. Put on the spot if any of us were offered 1,000's more per year, better car, better overall package and more scope for career progression, we would do the same.


We really wanted this guy to stay and offered him a really good package but he decided that the opportunity available with the new company was too good to turn down.


Thanks again, regards, Mark

Posted By JayJay

Hi Mark !

Ive not really read everybodys response but as i understand it Mark under section 2 HSWA 74 the employer has to provide adequate information. instruction,training and supervision to carry out his job, so if your a plant operator you need training and if that persons title is asbestos Surveyor he's got to be COMPETENT, which includes traing- so if its part of his job description how can anyone charge you for it ? As somebody mentioned it earlier PPE is to be provided free of charge if that equipment is part of the jobs risk assessment. if on the other hand he's volunteered to do the job and its not part of his original job spec then it may be different. i know i would have something to say if someone tried to charge me !!

Posted By Blue
No kiddin - am fae Scotland tae (wee joke from The Simpsons).

Company Policy is just a policy - your statement of intentions, and not the law (unless it is based around the law) and that's not the case here. If the gentleman signed the form - then the company could have produced this as a document in a tribunal hearing - most probably in The Eagle Building. Thats where this is likely to end up if they dock his final wage.

They will realise they have screwed up now though - a lesson they probably wont repeat.

Hope this helps you and your friend. Would be interested to know the outcome.

Best wishes, B