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#1 Posted : 09 October 2001 11:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard While carrying out checks prior to taking a new building over from contractors, I noticed that one or two of the extinguishers were base coloured chrome with red text. On enquiring why they weren't red I was told that this was what the architect wanted, to fit in with the decor! I will get them replaced, that's no problem, but surely by producing, specifying and installing equipmet which does not comply with the relevant legislation the manufacturer, the architect and the sub- contractor have all committed an offence under CDM? Any thoughts? Richard
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#2 Posted : 10 October 2001 08:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Sweetman Richard, You sound as if you may have fallen foul of a common problem. I would advise that you delve a little bit into the veracity of the responses/comments that you have been given. Someone may have been a little off-hand. If your building has been refurbished and existing extinguishers have been put back in position, then so long as they in good condition/tested etc, they are quite valid. The EN re. single colour extinguishers does not require extinguishers to be changed on the grounds of colour alone. Provided they are suitable they are still acceptable. If new extinguishers are being provided, then they must meet the single colour requirements. We all take short cuts, so it's not surprising that a designer may try and take credit for using what is already available. After all, a nice chrome finish will invariably fit in with the modern look. Regards Jim Sweetman
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#3 Posted : 10 October 2001 08:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor You will find that the legislation on colour coding refers to manufacture and not use. It is, therefore, legal in those terms to subsequently colour them as you wish. This is the case with some large department stores who specify them in 'house' colours. As to health and safety at work legislation, this is another matter and employees need to know what extinguishers contain and how to use them. I would suggest using the fire extinguisher signs available from the well-known sign companies.
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#4 Posted : 11 October 2001 10:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Rees Richard, I sympathise with your dilemma. However, before you spend any money replacing any extinguishers look carefully at the colour coding that is on each extinguisher. By this I refer to both the base colour and the text colour. When the Europeans changed the relevant legislation it was agreed that some form of colour coding be retained within the UK. The agreement allowed for a 5% colour coding to be included onto new extinguishers. This 5% includes both the base colour and the text. Therefore, it is possible to see a CO2 extinguisher with base colour red and text (large enough to cover the 5% of the extinguisher) in black to denote the CO2. The alternative to this is the black ring around the extinguisher, which again would cover the 5%. Personally, I agree with a previous response that mentioned that you can place a sign above the extinguisher point showing what type it is - this would certainly avoid any of the above confusion. Pete
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#5 Posted : 11 October 2001 11:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Just to clarify any confusion - this is a new building from green field up, and new equipment. We are not talking about usage, but design and installation. The extinguishers are coloured chrome, with 5% red lettering. I believe that it is an offence if not under CDM then under PUWERS to design, supply or install equipment which does not comply with the relevant Health & Safety legislation (and, in fact, with the relevant British Standard) Richard
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#6 Posted : 11 October 2001 11:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Rees Richard, You don't specify, but I assume that the extinguisher is a water extinguisher? This assumption has been made due to the red text. If this is a correct assumption, then I don't see that any safety regs have been breached. (Obviously, if it is a CO2 then the text should be black and the designers are at fault.) Pete
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#7 Posted : 15 October 2001 16:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gary Cutter Hi Richard I agree with many of the comments made. I don't think any laws have been broken if its refurbishment new build and new supply would be different Regards Gary Cutter Chair Fire Risk Management Specialist Group
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#8 Posted : 16 October 2001 08:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Gary See my response of 11 Oct (two up from here!). This is newbuild from greenfield, and new equipment under a new contract. I still believe the manufacturer should not even be making this colour extinguisher for the home market. With reference to one of your responses on another contemporary thread, I am a not a fire specialist, and am already with other specialist groups. However I fully support the work of your group, and find your responses extremely valuable and informative, even where they do have direct relevance to my particular field. Keep up the good work! Richard
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#9 Posted : 16 October 2001 08:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor Try asking your question on the FireNet BBS on: http://www.globalcrisisc...er.com/BBSFire/index.php
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#10 Posted : 17 October 2001 10:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By JOD In addition to you being unhappy with the use of these extinguishers in the building I would suggest that you ensure that it is raised with your insurers. It is my understanding that although, as previously stated, the extinguishers are NOT contravening any fire safety legislation, some insurance companies specify that extinguishers used must be in accordance with the EC directive.
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#11 Posted : 18 October 2001 16:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mike Charleston For information, I visited the SHE Exhibition at Docklands this week and have just been looking through one of the many bits of bumph that I received. A magazine called the Safety Specifier carries an item about Chrome Look Extinguishers on Page 8 in their September edition, saying: "Firemaster has introduced a new high quality, chrome look refillable ABC dry powder fire extinguisher ideal for office, commercial and industrial applications. Its capacity is 1kg and gives a controlled discharge of 8 seconds" The accompanying picture shows a fully chromed cylinder with red release lever and the words "FIRE EXTINGUISHER" in red letters - nothing else is red in the picture, although of course there is only one side of the unit visible in the picture. Pick the bones out of that chaps .... surely a company like Firemaster is not going to design a new unit that falls foul of PUWER and/or points as basic as those you have been discussing???
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#12 Posted : 18 October 2001 17:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi PUWER is "user" - not "supplier" set of regulations. The European Standard for Fire Extinguishers is BS EN 3 - (various parts), which we all know is the red one with 5% allowed for mmarking in the "original" colour code. It would be interesting to know to what British or other standard are the new Chrome types are manufactured to ?? and also whether for e.g.these get the approval from bodies such as LPCB
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#13 Posted : 07 November 2001 10:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Cooper Just a quick endorsement of Jim Sweetmans comments, we provide new fire equipment and as far as I am aware you cannot buy new stainless steel finish extinguishers, if you could they would obviously not conform with BS EN3. Regards Chris Cooper QA Fire
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