Posted By nigel a evans I provide a health and safety consultancy service to residential blocks and carry out risks assessments of the common areas. One area that I am seeking views on is the issue of fire safety in blocks and in particular whether there is a need to provide fire alarms within theses areas. I generally assess the risk within these areas as being normal without alarms and using the guidance in British Standard 5588 –Fire precautions in the design construction and use of buildings:Part 1. Code of practice for residential buildings, and as referred to by Colin Todd in his publication (The Design of Fire Detection Installations for Dwellings). I was earlier in the year involved in a paper confrontation with some Managing Agents who had advised a client to have a system installed in a residential block of about 120 flats and had priced the system at about £80k. Added to some essential repairs and upgrading of the electrics the total package amounted to in excess of £350k. (No fire risk assessment had been carried out but the building services consultant was insisting that it was a legal requirement under the Fire Precautions Regulations. Last week I had another conversation with a fire consultant who suggested to me that the fire alarm was a requirement of the Fire Certificate (residential blocks don't have fire certificates)! And today I was given a health and safety risk assessment for a block that stated there should be a fire alarm without even discussing the hazards and risks. Am I the only soldier walking this step or are there others that echo my sentiments. Your comments and observations will be much appreciated.

Posted By John Webster Am I not right in believing that, at least in Scotland, new legislation has put or is about to put "premises in multiple occupancy" -i.e. blocks of flats, tenements, houses converted to bedsits etc. - on pretty much the same level as hotels and guest houses in that where there is sleeping accommodation for more than 6 people and some is above or below ground floor level then a fire certificate is required? This would almost certainly include for an alarm system that can alert sleeping residents to a fire in another part of the same building. Unfortunately I have binned the literature I received a couple of months ago (my guest house already complies), but a period for landlords to undertake the necessary improvements was mentioned. Maybe your consultants are looking towards this. Can anybody offer more definative info? John

Posted By Gary Cutter Hi Nigel Terrific query! You have opened a big can of worms. Your client’s premises are outside of the Fire Precautions Act 1971 so they don’t need a fire certificate. Even if they were letting rooms to members of the public who came in off the streets they still wouldn’t. There are provisos of course, notably if your client were providing ballroom, restaurant facilities etc for guests and your client was running the business of a hotel or boarding house keeper and they were providing sleeping accommodation for more than six then they would need a certificate. (I know its all very confusing) Your client provides residential accommodation but you don’t specify what the population is i.e. students, oap homes’ etc. You maybe right in your categorisation as ‘normal occupancy’ but it may be higher depending upon the group that lives there. You also don’t mention in which part of the country this establishment is. For example one of your respondents talks about the “The Civic Government (Scotland) Act 1982 (Licensing of Houses in Multiple Occupation) Order 2000. This is newish legislation that has now classified student accommodation as being HIMO’s. Here a BS 5839 L2 system is advocated in their model standards You are right to use BS 5588 part 1 as part of your assessment. Perhaps you should also consider Building Regulations (part B) also and depending if it is in Scotland their Technical Standards. Now I must warn you there are different ideas throughout the country about what is acceptable. I work for a company who are the largest providers of student accommodation throughout the UK. We install a BS 5839 L2 system generally throughout all our properties (I stress the generally) because that’s how we have classified our risk. Interestingly on all new builds this type of system are normally what fire brigades ask to be installed during building regs consultation. Sadly, I can’t give you a definitive answer unless I know more about the type of occupancy. Given that information then I could make a reasonable stab at giving you more informed advice. Nevertheless, you could always talk to you Fire Prevention Officer from the local Brigade. Gary Cutter Chair Fire Risk Management Specialist Group. PS. Let me plug my group if you haven’t joined please do, we need more members to become a really active voice.