Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 19 November 2001 10:32:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Rebecca Wignall The company, which I work for, procures small contractors to undertake low value/high volume insurance repair works within domestic properties (the policyholder’s home). Typical trades include plumbing, painting, decorating, joinery, electrical work, roof work, glazing etc. The Contractors used (mostly employ less than 5 people) are soon to be issued with our Company health & safety policy and safety rules, detailing requirements for assessing risk, reporting of accidents etc. The tradesmen employed have appropriate knowledge & experience of the activities they undertake although the majority are unable to demonstrate any health & safety training, in which case I do not feel they are competent to undertake suitable & sufficient risk assessments. The Croner’s Construction Risk Assessment document states that ‘significant findings of a risk assessment should be recorded where the employer employs five of more employees’. Does this mean that Contractors employing less than five do not need to record or provide risk assessments to us (even if we are asking them to comply with our health & safety policy - which requires mechanisms & systems to be in place for the progressive identification & the removal of risks involving injury, ill health or material damage)? Any thoughts on the requirements for RAs for small contractors & the level of control/supervision on non-fixed sites, would be appreciated.
Admin  
#2 Posted : 19 November 2001 14:24:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert K Lewis The problem is that you are the contractor employing these subcontractors. The neutral use of contractor in CDM etc has created a non-awareness of the problem. If the contractor cannot produce his own you have the obligation to do so and ensure that the measures are instituted. Your organisation is "employing" in a strict sense, or put it a different way round your business is putting persons not in your employment at risk. You pays your money and takes your pick. Assess the work yourself and insist on adherence to the safe methods defined by yourself Bob
Admin  
#3 Posted : 19 November 2001 15:36:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ashley Williams Rebecca, Employers are not required to have written risk assessments if they employ less than 5 employees, this however does not mean that they can get away with not doing them, they just don’t have to write them down. They should provide them if you ask for them though. If you want them to provide them there is no reason you cant request them, many large companies now ask for Safety policies, Accident Statistics and risk assessments even from the lone traders. You could also make these requests. Your concern about their competency to do risk assessments is valid, however there is no requirement for them to have had safety training. They just have to have the knowledge, skills and experience of doing the job. As for supervision that’s always difficult when small works are involved. Basically you need to induct them into how you work, consider spot checks and monitoring of all your contractors on a regular basis possibly quarterly. Hope this helps, if you need more just give me a call on 01535 664462. I work for a health and safety project we provide free advice, information, training and support to SME's and charities. So if I can help drop me a call. Ashley
Admin  
#4 Posted : 19 November 2001 17:50:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By David Winfield Rebecca, Bob is quite right with his answer.You are subcontracting and you have a legal obligation to ensure compliance with the measures introduced by yourself. You therefore have a legal responsibility not to put others not in your employment at risk. Ask them to adhere to the safety methods that you put into place. Dave
Admin  
#5 Posted : 19 November 2001 23:38:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Rob Anthony Just to add an observation on this subject. I have come across building companies who won't employ 5 (they keep at 4 or less) but use sub-contractors to make up the numbers for jobs, on the basis that they don't have written policies for Health & safety. There are no Health & safety plans or assessments done at all. Any comments?
Admin  
#6 Posted : 20 November 2001 08:22:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Ken Taylor I have also come across these companies - and sometimes they can be running quite large operations. They escape some of the paperwork but not the legal duties in health and safety. They also risk not being included in lists of approved contractors. Fortunately the risk assessment, method statent and related literature has to materialise if you use them for CDM work and get the procedures, health and safety plans, etc right.
Admin  
#7 Posted : 20 November 2001 12:08:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert K Lewis Just be clear that the CDM requirement refers to the number of people working on the project not whether they are all directly employed by the same employer. Hence 4 direct + 1 subcontractor, or equivalent to give 5, is sufficient. The requirement for risk assessments at this number of persons is in general terms the one under the Management Regs - I think however that the HSE will be more than happy to settle at the lack of a safe system of work to fill the gap if the work has any degree of complexity or co-ordination between various parties. Bob
Users browsing this topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.