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#1 Posted : 20 February 2002 12:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nick House Can anyone point me in the right direction to obtain thermometers to place around an office area? I am looking to monitor the temperature, as people are coming up to me on a daily basis asking me to arrange to have the heating/ aircon adjusted as they are too hot/ cold. Whilst I appreciate that we have a duty to provide adequate heating, it is rapidly becoming a full time job for the maintenance engineers to come and adjust the thermostats etc. in the offices (which is in turn holding up more important jobs). Many thanks, Nick.
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#2 Posted : 20 February 2002 12:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Hughes Nick, I experienced similar problems and unfortunately it seems that it is impossible to please everyone in open plan offices. Air conditioning with local thermostatic controls seemed to cause various departmental arguments with each individual having their own idea of a perfect temperature. Preferred temperature appeared to be linked to the age and sex of the staff in each office. Non air-conditioned offices with opening windows caused further problems with complaints about draughts and outside noise and dust blowing in etc. I don't envy you your task! Centralise or lock off the thermostats and controls and set an average temperature if you can, but don't ask me what average would be!! Steve Hughes
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#3 Posted : 20 February 2002 14:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nick House Hi Stephen, You've hit the nail on the head there. What makes the problem worse is the fact that the windows in the building do not open. Each open area is approx. 5000 sq/ft (sorry, I have not been decimalised yet!!), and there are thermostats to adjust each qtr of the area individually (wiothin reason, obviously). As you say, the trouble is, there is always going to be someone who is not satisfied. Ho - Hum!!
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#4 Posted : 20 February 2002 16:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Nick There is more to thermal comfort than temperature alone (air velocity, mean radiant temperature of the surroundings, relative humidity, etc.) It may be that the temperature is adequate but that the air velocity is too high (and so people will think that the office is draughty, especially if the temperature is a little on the low side anyway). Try adjusting the air distribution vanes rather than the temperature. However, you will never be able to please all of the people all of the time. If you would like amy more help, e-mail me direct using the link at the top of this message. Regards Paul Leadbetter
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#5 Posted : 25 February 2002 16:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Haywood Another option might be to ask everyones indulgance whilst you 'conduct a survey'. Monday the temp will be xx Tuesday the temp will be xx etc. Ask them all to complete a questionaire which they should fill in hourly as to how they are feeling e.g. too hot, too cool, draughty etc. Include questions in your survey rgarding what their activity was at the time e.g. sedentary, sitting typing etc. If you go slightly higher than surveys 'average best temperature' you could provide a few desk top fans for localised cooling. Another plus point is if they fill in the questionare every hour, they will get a feel for the poor maintanence chaps running around... I don't envy your task though!
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#6 Posted : 25 February 2002 20:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jan Moore I had the same problem but fortunately our offices are not air conditioned. As safety officer, I got the task of trying to please everyone which was a thankless task but I couldn't agree with a union representative who wanted to send everyone home because the temperature was 16 degrees. I did a walk round at the same time asking staff to complete a questionnaire. I think someone else came up with that idea. Our lot did this for a day and then dropped the complaints. Two offices brought in fan heaters which I arranged to have tested before they were used. Telling staff to work harder and shut up doesn't work!! Good luck.
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#7 Posted : 25 February 2002 22:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter i bought some in do it all i have seen bog standard thermometers in most diy stores you can also try any office supply company or setons
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#8 Posted : 26 February 2002 11:55:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster If you install extra thermometers, get the type which show broad coloured bands eg "Too cold", "Ideal" "Too Warm - wasting energy" in addition to the numerical temperature value. They usually come as plastic or card backed liquid crystal strips, available from places like energy advice centres and energy utility companies. Provided that the temperature stays within the "Ideal" zone I would expect you to get fewer complaints.
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#9 Posted : 26 February 2002 15:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Roberts Nick, I got round the problem by having the main temperature control situated in a managers office set by the manager with all the other controls disconnected. We also put exta "dummy" controls around the office for staff to play with in their own area. This satisfied everyone who thought they were controling their own environment and were happy. The manager kept the temperature around 21C which is a reasonable average. We put this system in over a weekend about a year ago and the complaints stopped. Good luck Phil R.
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#10 Posted : 26 February 2002 16:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nick House Very many thanks to all who responded with various ideas and advice, both through the forum and via email. It seems that there is no easy solution ("as if", as my daughter would say!!) I will definitely take the route of devising/ using questionnaires, as this should not only give me a better idea of what needs to be done to keep as many as possible happy ( and still keeping a reasonable temperature in the office), but as suggested, it may well also have the effect of making people think about the amount of work involved for others to keep adjusting the temperature. Very many thanks once again to you all. Regards, Nick.
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#11 Posted : 27 February 2002 08:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brian Dawson Phil, you seem to be treating staff like children; what happens to your credibility when they find you out? Also I'm not sure your approach fits in with the IOSH Code of professional conduct? ie: Members owe a primary loyalty to the workpeople and the community they serve and the environment they affect. Their practice should be performed according to the highest standards and ethical principles, maintaining respect for human dignity. Safety and health practitioners shall seek to ensure professional independence in the execution of their functions. Members called on to give an opinion in their professional capacity shall be honest and, to the best of their ability, objective and reliable.
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#12 Posted : 27 February 2002 11:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen Hughes I think that Phil Roberts's approach to this problem that many of us have obviously experienced got him a result and should not be criticised. I have witnessed employees have slanging matches because someone is literally getting too hot under the collar whilst another colleague complains that it is too cold! There is no human dignity in that. I was only in a meeting recently where someone switched on the overhead air conditioning unit and within a couple of minutes someone else was complaining and another person was putting on their coat back on to show their disapproval. Similar problems have occurred with lighting where some individuals seem to prefer to almost work in the dark and others prefer floodlighting levels! Centralising heating and lighting controls and listening to realistic feedback from employees helps put pay to a lot of the local issues. If it is well maintained and kept at a "reasonable average", employees will come to accept this. I worked in a large 1000+ office block where facilities management controlled equipment and there was certainly no queue of staff outside the door complaining. Anyway, good luck to all involved!
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#13 Posted : 27 February 2002 12:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nigel Woods On a couple of occations I have loaned some large offices with a digital thermometer and asked them to take readings throughout the day i.e. on the hour every hour. Information then put into graph form to identify peaks and lows. Staff happy that such detail being looked at and if necessary action taken. Over the years some ceiling air vents had also been closed thus creating draughts else where. Now sorted I hope! Most staff seem happy when situations are regularly monitored at least they feel someone cares.
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#14 Posted : 27 February 2002 15:45:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Roberts Brian, You take life too seriously. Office temperature is a semi-annual old chestnut. I have been through the;- ajustment by maintenance staff, fitting extra louvers to redirect the draught, moving staff so that heat lovers are in the hot spots and cold lovers in the cold spots etc,etc. Any body who has been through the procedures for 3 years on a weekly basis, like I have, trying to please all of the people all of the time will know it is an immpossible task. Resorting to a solution that seems to satisfy 99.9% of the staff is the best that our maintenance department could come up with and after hearing the petty auguments that staff have had over the years it seem like a fair solution to maintain a reasonable temperature which will harm no one.As for dignity, there is nothing dignifying in watching two members of staff coming to blows like children in a school yard about a difference of one or two degrees in the office. As for being ethical and professional I hope that the staff I look after, 600+, feel that I always try to make sure that the laws and regulations are applied fairly and management do their best to comply. Best Regards Phil Roberts
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#15 Posted : 28 February 2002 09:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard Phil How do manage to restrict it to a weekly basis? I get this at least three times a week! Richard
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#16 Posted : 28 February 2002 12:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Eric Letherman Perhaps the first thing to do with problems with office temperature is it to establish whether it is a health and safety or discomfort issue. If the latter, it won't be resolved by health and safety logic. We don't have to make the world a perfect place and as long as the temperature falls within a reasonable range, that's as much as we're expected to do. That won't stop repeated requests for the temperature to be adjusted of course, but it makes clear that managers should communicate to their staff that the temperature is acceptable, rather than leave it to the H&S person to give the bad news.
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#17 Posted : 04 March 2002 10:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Roberts Richard, I have 31 offices to look after but only the three main sites have air conditioning, so I only visit them when I can't avoid it any longer. Hence weekly visits, but on these visits I also get plaged with requests and complaints for such things as, more toilet rolls, poor cleaning standards, and anything else that some office managers fail to address. There is never a dull moment being a H&S guy!! Regards Phil
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#18 Posted : 04 March 2002 16:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brian Dawson Phil, why on earth do staff raise issues about lavatory paper with you. Haven't you told them what you do? I thought this view of the safety adviser (or "safety officer") went out years ago. Does your employer want you to spend your time on these issues? This seems to hark back to that old "safety officer/car park attendant" job advert!
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#19 Posted : 05 March 2002 09:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Roberts Brian, I get involved in petty domestic issues firstly because it is percieved by staff as a H&S issue that is not being addressed by local managment. Secondly I am always willing to listen to staff if they have a problem, that way I gain their confidence and respect as a careing H&S manager. This works in my favour when other more serious issues need to be addressed needing staff co-operation. Its a question of give and take and it takes away the "Bogie man attitude" that some staff in a very old fashioned company like mine still have of the "Safety man" with the big stick. It's called man managment skills in some circles but it works for me. Regards Phil
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#20 Posted : 05 March 2002 12:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Richard It works for me too. I have been out this morning checking on a claim for damage to somebody's clothing. It has nothing to do with H&S and is a pain in the butt, but both management and staff respect my views, and this spills across to my primary task. I am seen as something of an "honest broker", and I regard this as a bit of a compliment. As I said in a previous response, far better to spend a little time on niff naff and trivia like this, than have people say "Don't bother with the Health and Safety Officer. He's a waste of space". Richard
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