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#1 Posted : 11 April 2002 17:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Nicki I'm sure you have all seen dumped cars on the roads which have been totally vandalised and burnt out. We have had three cars dumped in our private car park which have also been totally "wrecked". Our local council will not remove them as they are on private property and as you might expect the police are not bothered. As they were causing a real safety hazard we paid to have them removed and the area cleaned up. My question is, as a company were do we stand H&S legislation wise for any possible accidents or injuries that might result from someone dumping cars in this way. Our solution to the problem has been to erect lock-down bollards to prevent unlawful access. This apppears to have worked because another car has just appeared, in the premises next door!! Regards Nicki
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#2 Posted : 12 April 2002 10:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis The problem is that once the item has been successfully dumped on your land you are responsible for its proper disposal - Hence the LA and police do not want to know, except if a crime has been committed in the case of the latter. You cannot even drag it back onto the street as you will then committ an offence of Flytipping also!! From the safety point of view the picture is I feel much the same. The duty of care must also extend to the safety of employees, visitors, the general public and even trespassers. You have made the area more secure and this is the best solution. On site dumped fridges, freezers, beds, 3 piece suites and even the kitchen sink are often the problem along with dumped cars. Bob
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#3 Posted : 12 April 2002 12:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bryn Maidment Nicki Don't know if my experience this week will help but I had a car dumped outside my garage in a private courtyard. I called the Police who would only be involved if the thing was on the public highway, had been involved in a crime or was in a dangerous situation. The Council initially tried to fob me off but I persisted (on the advice of the Police!) and was directed to the person who 'slaps 7 day notices on dumped vehicles'. It turns out that the Council ARE responsible for abandoned vehicles on private property but they have to put a 15 day notice on the damned thing. Despite the vehicle blocking 2 private garages and acting as a magnet for further dumping/ arsonists they would not touch it until the expiry of the 15 day notice (in this case the 15 day notice man had been seconded to another department for 4 weeks and therefore couldn't help, the 7 day notice bod wasn't allowed to issue 15 day notices!!!). So I would have had to pay privately or wait 6 weeks to use my garage. Sheer lunacy. As it happened someone rolled it out onto the highway one night, parked it up, slashed the tyres and locked all the doors and windows and then called the Police!!! Amazingly generous some people eh! I don't know if the differnce between a County Council, Borough Council, Town Council etc. changes the responsibility they have nor whether it applies to burnt out cars though. Risk wise - very little as long as your company clears ups any debris around the wreck that may impact on pedestrians or other vehicles
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#4 Posted : 16 April 2002 09:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor News Release 2002/0152: 10 April 2002 BYERS AND MEACHER LAUNCH ABANDONED CARS CRACKDOWN This press notice is issued on behalf of the Department for Transport, Local Government & the Regions and the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs Tough new measures to clamp down on abandoned cars which came into force yesterday have been welcomed by Stephen Byers, Secretary of State for Transport, Local Government and the Regions and Michael Meacher, Environment Minister. The measures for local authorities include: Powers to remove vehicles abandoned on the street anywhere in England after 24 hours instead of the present seven days; Increased opportunities to work with DVLA to remove unlicensed cars; Powers to dispose more quickly of unlicensed vehicles removed under DVLA powers, after 7 days rather than 35; Easier tracing and clarification of vehicle ownership through additional funding from the 'Invest to Save' programme Stephen Byers said: "Abandoned cars blight neighbourhoods, can be hazardous, especially to children, and are arson cases waiting to happen. They can also make the lives of local residents a misery. "That is why we are taking these immediate steps to address the problem. This is an important part of our safer streets agenda. Local councils will, now have the power to remove many abandoned cars after 24 hours, rather than seven days as before. "We are also encouraging local councils to work in partnership with the DVLA and other authorities, making real inroads into the bureaucratic barriers that have frustrated action in the past. "Specifically, tracing vehicle owners will now be easier as a result of a successful Invest to Save Bid, which has resulted in an investment of £2.7 million to make available computer links between the DVLA and local councils. "This initiative demonstrates our firm commitment to improving the public space - making a real difference in people's lives and the places in which they live and work." The Government intends to introduce reforms to the vehicle registration system to ensure that, in future, all vehicles can be traced to the correct keeper. The principles of this were widely supported in the consultation exercise. We will discuss the details with interested parties, particularly motorists and businesses. Environment Minister Michael Meacher said: "We are determined to put an end to the abominable eyesore on roads and also in the countryside of thousands of abandoned vehicles which are sometimes not removed for months. They diminish the quality of peoples’ local environment and can act as a magnet for more serious anti-social behaviour. "The new regulations tackle the problem head-on giving councils the right to remove vehicles left abandoned anywhere in England after 24 hours. "I fully support the measures outlined by Stephen Byers to improve the accuracy of the vehicle register and to make owners take full responsibility for their vehicles. "It is simply not right that an irresponsible minority of motorists should attempt to evade their responsibilities for registering, insuring and maintaining their vehicles."
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#5 Posted : 16 April 2002 09:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Roger Smith Nicki, It may be useful to also consider the hazards from dumped and/or previously burnt out vehicles: Flammables such as petrol, diesel, LPG, natural gas and hydrogen will be present. Do not smoke around the vehicle. Fibre reinforced plastics and kevlar are used in vehicle construction. During and after combustion these can become fibrous and airborne. Injuries and ill health arise from the contact (e.g. fibre glass rash) and inhalation of free fibres. Batteries contain Sulphuric acid - Chemical burns may arise from contact. Suspension suspension systems, and air bags may become unstable after a fire and could explode or deploy during any subsequent movement of the vehicle. Chemical burns may also arise from contact with powders within airbags that have burst. Fluoroelastomers are synthetic rubber like materials containing fluorine, commonly used in motor vehicles for gaskets, ‘O’ Rings and seals. These decompose in fires above 400°C to form hydrofluoric acid. At its most extreme, this can dissolve glass and cause fluorosis of the bones (removal of calcium) one treatment for which is amputation! Persons who are suspected of being exposed to this substance will need to seek urgent medical treatment. Sharps such as metal and glass may cause cuts. There have been cases where razor blades have been placed under door handles to cause deliberate injuries to any person who attempts to move the vehicle. Biological hazards (i.e. body fluids) may arise from vehicle accidents or from deliberate contamination. This may include hypodermics needles. As well as the above there are the more general hazards such as instability of vehicles, manual handling etc. The best form of control is to prevent access to your site as you appear to have done successfully. Once on site, the best control includes cordoning off the vehicle with security fencing rather than hazard tape to restrict or prevent access and to clear the vehicle from site as soon as possible. Regards Roger
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#6 Posted : 16 April 2002 10:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Petrie I think in terms of the legal point of view your position would be as follows. As suggested earlier, remove any immediate hazards, like broken glass and leaking petrol. Then inform the council or arrange to have it moved ASAP. As long as you hvae done this, what would be considered 'reasonable' you should be ok. it would be wise to keep in regular contact with the council to moniter their progress. If you were to leave the vehicle for an extended period of time without taking any action to remove it then the position would be different and you would probably be found negligent should any incident occur, and liable to a prosecution/fine. Alternatively you could re-locate to merseyside where they have just bought a mobile car crusher for turning abandoned cars into scrap on the roadside. Not exactly practical but a good idea by merseyside council non the less.
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