Posted By David Mains Hi, The NHS Trust where I work is currently looking to update it's smoking policy with a view to becomming a no smoking environment with the exception of a designated employee rest room. I was wondering if anyone would like to share their experience of their workplace introducing a similar policy, specifically views on policing the policy and whether it increased underground smoking. Thanks, David.

Posted By Neal Robertson We introduced a smoking policy around 4 years ago, with a complete ban in all buildings, smoking only permitted at designated breaks. We provided a couple of refuges for bad weather, installed a number of cigarette bins, and made information on stopping smoking available through our Scotlands Health at Work information points and in the company journal. Net effects after 4 years - no reported infringements by staff, the odd visitor has been known to light up in the toilets though. Staff seem to respect the smoking shelters and use the bins. To my knowledge a good half dozen diehard smokers have taken advantage of smoking cessation advice. Another idea may be to start stopping smoking clinics in your workplace - your local GP surgery or Occupational Health Department will probably be keen to help. Regards

Posted By John Webster A few things you might like to bear in mind. You will need somewhere close to or within the Wards for patients to smoke if you want to avoid toilet smokers or, as I have seen on two occasions, patients smoking standing outside in their nightclothes with an iv drip stand. Remember especially the needs of long stay patients for whom the hospital is home. Supervised patient smoking is catered for within our policy. More than one staff smokeroom would be advisable. The quick fag precludes going to get changed, so there is a danger of cross infection in the smokeroom when the cook sits next to the mortuary attendant etc. At the same time, most Healthcare staff, including the smokers, are well aware that smoking is incompatible with the healthcare setting, so it is probably one of the more accepting environments (along with petrochemical) to introduce a Policy into. I'm just a little surprised that you havn't done so already. Good luck John

Posted By David Mains John, we currently have a smoking policy, we are looking to update it as it is largely redundant/ignored. Sorry for the confusion. The feeling at the moment from the policy group reviewing it, is that we should only have 1 area for staff and none for patients. Obviuosly if patients decide to leave their ward areas to go outside then that is their choice and they will be made aware of this. The consensus seems to be that we should not be seen to encourage smoking in patients, visitors or staff. Personally, I am a non smoker who dislikes the smell of cigarette smoke but I recognise the rights of individuals to choose to smoke. I am mainly worried about the underground smokers although this is already an issue. I would rather see a patient standing outside with their drip (not a great sight, especially at a hospital entrance)than find them hiding in a cupboard.

Posted By Rob Todd Excuse me - what's all this "allowing" patients to smoke outside or banning smoking in car parks (I presume you mean open air). How bloody fascistic can you get. You in the NHS had better come to realise that it's the patients that pay your wages, get charged extra tax to fund the NHS wage bill AND Pay 85% tax on every cigarette smoked. Without smokers you would have no NHS. By all means have a smoking policy but I wish you wouldn't always make out that you're doing us a favour. YOU'RE NOT, you're taking away something without discussing it with those most effected i.e. the smokers. Have suitable and sufficient smoking rooms for both patients and guests. Make sure that there is suitable ventilation and ensure that the furniture is fire-resistant. That's all you need. Smokers are the most viciously attacked and discriminated upon people in this country. If you discriminated against women or peoples skin colour you'd end up in jail. For once give us a break!!!!!!!

Posted By JULIE SANDERS I agree with Rob, people need to have the choice of smoking or not smoking and provided there is distinct separation and the health of non smokers is protected from smokers then I see no problem, the views of one group should not be forced onto another. I think as with most things some compromise is needed.

Posted By John Webster Far from being fascists wishing to impose their will on others, non-smokers have for generations had to suffer at the hands of the fascist smokers. We should all have the right to breathe fresh air, but for so long smokers have controlled the quality of air we must breathe. Oh to be able to go into a restaurant and enjoy the taste of the food, rather than the smoke from the next table. It is impossible to go out in an evening without ending up with sore eyes and all the clothes having to be laundered to get rid of the stink. My wife develops hay-fever like symptoms in a smoky atmosphere, my son has asthma. Unfortunately, smokers (and I used to be one of them) are completely unaware of the misery their habit causes to others who do not share their passion. I hope you never have to share a stuffy office with a fellow smoker with BO, stinking feet who farts all the time after the beer and curry - thats how bad a smoker can smell to a non-smoker, and I wish I had realised it many years before I did!! I find the tax revenue vs NHS expenditure on smokers arguments particularly unhelpul and offensive. It seems akin to saying "I have paid my road tax and fuel tax and alcohol duty, so I will drive as fast as I like, as drunk as I like because I have paid for my right to inflict mysery or even death on others, I have paid for the Police, Ambulance and Fire Brigade to turn out, and will expect the NHS to fix me up when I come to grief". I take it you do not use any smuggled tobacco which now accounts for 20% of all cigarettes and 80% of all rollups consumed in the UK at an annual cost to the exchequer of £2.5 billon in lost revenue? That said, and soap box away, I am and always have been in favour of smokers being treated fairly, and in leasure facilities etc. they should have seperate places in which they can enjoy their recreational pastime (for such it is) and still have access to the same level of facilities as non-smokers. I can see no justification in employers providing special facilities for a minority of staff to indulge in their recreational pastimes. I realise, though, that many use this pastime as a form of refreshment, and should therefore have an accessible smoking area but they should have no right to fag breaks over and above the time allocated to other staff. Now to hospitals. It is quite wrong to allow patients to smoke in the vicinity of other patients, many of whom may be suffering from conditions incompatible with tobacco smoke. This is not a fascist act, just common sense and good clinical practice. Should valuable staff be released to supervise infirm patients being taken to a patient smoke room (seperate from staff smoke rooms for infection control), or should we get a band of happy, fag smoking volunteers, and train them up in clinical manual handling so the patients can enjoy their pastime? Not a particularly productive use of resources. Yet hospitals ARE humane and DO assist patients who feel the need to smoke. The NHS, love it or loathe it, is trying to move away from its traditional role of just treating the sick to one which places more emphasis on promoting and fostering good health. To the cynical it may be just a way of saving money, but I'm sure readers of this forum will be able to see the positive benefits. Smoking has no significant health benefits, and is a proven cause of cripling and frequently fatal disease, tying up some 9500 hospital beds at any one time. Of course the NHS should be seen as disapproving of smoking. Of course staff should not be seen gathered in doorways and car parks for a quick drag. The NHS is supposed to be setting a non-smoking example, yet recognises the individual needs of some staff and patients by providing smoke rooms. By the way, who pays for regular extra redecoration of areas where smoking takes place, the frequent laundering of curtains and upholstery, who empties away all your butts bins, sweeps up the squashed dog-ends, replaces the holed carpets. Who pays for the extractors on your smoke room, the electric to run them, the heating to replace the extracted air. Who picks up the "tab" for installing your extra smoke detectors, and testing and servicing them? Why, everybody - smokers and non smokers alike. So to the likes of Rob, stick that in your pipe...as they say. Take your self indulgent pastime and practice it where it belongs - in your own time in your own place instead of expecting everybody else to put up with it and cough up for it. And lets hope you do not become more of the 132 deaths and 2119 serious injuries from the 6083 fires caused by smokers materials in 1999.