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#1 Posted : 22 January 2003 10:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Good Morning Does any know a readily available source of information on LELs and, particularly, how to calculate the LEL of a mixture? Paul
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#2 Posted : 22 January 2003 14:06:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Scott Paul, not sure if you are after a definitive listing, but normally, LEL and UEL should be part of the Material Safety Data Sheets for the product under question as part of the Physical Properties section. Another source could be Croners Substances Hazardous to Health or similar publications. My Chemists say that this cannot be calculated but is determined by test. Whether this is true or not who knows! Sorry, can't be of anymore help.
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#3 Posted : 23 January 2003 21:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle See EH40 Stuart
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#4 Posted : 24 January 2003 12:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Both the MDHS and EH40 can provide the info and the Chemist friend is absolutly correct as it has to be measured individually for any single chemical or mixture of several. It is all to do with vapour pressures and partial vapour pressures. It is theoretically possible to mix a highly flammable substance in water and for the resultant to be non flammable as insufficient vapour is given off to reach the Lower flammable limit. With gas mixtures one will need to look at the individual concentrations to assess which one's have entered their LEL/UEL zone. So ultimately the answer is the same. A test is the only means of assessment. Bob ps It is 20+ years since I pracrised as a chemist
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#5 Posted : 24 January 2003 12:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Thanks for the help so far although I am confused by the references to EH40. I cannot find any LEL figures in there. On the calculation front, I have a recollection of a former chemical engineer colleague doing the sums for mixtures but perhaps I am mistaken. Paul
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#6 Posted : 24 January 2003 13:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Apologies - EH40 I seem to remember had such information but no longer. The Rubber Handbook is the ultimate resource but it is as scarce as rocking horse manure outside the Chemical industry and the like. Like all good chemists I was trained as a Chem E. and am still reasonably good with the "buckets". (Gu)estimates are possible but it is one of our black arts not a definitive calculation. I would press the supplier/manufacturer route. Unless of course you are the manufacturer then the answer is to test it. Bob
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#7 Posted : 24 January 2003 14:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi There was a draft BSI Standard document : 95/121417 DC "Determination of explosion limits of gases, vapours and their mixtures" related to prEN 1839:1995" Perry's Chemical Engineers Handbook, now in its 7th Edition should have the data. use webaddress below to find out more about the online version--there is a facility for a trail!!! http://www.knovel.com/knovel2/Toc.jsp?BookID=48
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#8 Posted : 26 January 2003 13:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Roger K. Bentley This question has reminded me of something in a book entitled Chemical Risk Analysis by Bernard Martel, which I reviewed for JIOSH. Whilst I agree with other respondents that explosive limits are usually determined experimentally, and can often be found on safety sata sheets, Prof. Martel does give two methods to calculate them for pure substances. The formulae are somewhat complex to quote here. He goes on to say that it is only in a few cases that the flammability limits of vapour mixtures can be calculated.
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#9 Posted : 26 January 2003 15:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By shaun mckeever It is difficult to work out the UEL and LEL limits as these generally have to be done under test conditions and there are varying factors such as ambient air temperature and pressure. The equation you referred to earlier may be the equation for working out the stoichiometric mixture. This is the ideal mixture for acheiving complete combustion where the mixture is neither too lean nor too rich. Could this be what you are looking for?
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#10 Posted : 27 January 2003 08:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Thank you to everyone who has responded so far. Jay's link took me, eventually, to the information I was looking for about calculating the LEL of a mixture but I am still seeking a comprehensive listing of LELs for future reference. Paul
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