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Posted By Tony Birchall
Anyone who uses the train for work or pleasure may see the mess that's left on lines, as a result of a lack of waste housing facilities on train toilets. It confuses me how it is not possible to control this and why it is not controlled.
Hygiene is clearly an issue that needs to be addressed.
Does anyone know much about this? Anyone perhaps on the Railway Specialist Group?
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Posted By Stuart Nagle
I am sure you are right. There are a lot of irresponsible people about who dump their grass cuttings etc over the fence and worse.
People throw litter from trains and it does appear untidy if as well unhygienic.
The upshot I expect is that there are already many laws and bye-laws concerning this, but enforcement would be difficult as to catching or policing who did what, when etc. The cost of course is what is prohibitive here, and if you could convinve the population that train fares should increase by 600% to pay for litter pickers and policing of the laws already in force, i'm sure some action would be taken.
The real battle is in educating people to have more respect for their environs and instill in people at an early age that this behaviour is not tolerated.
Unfortunately we live in a society where a lot parents (for example) don't give a hoot what their kids are doing, as long as it is not annoying them. The attitude of young people is important as their discipline when young often influences their behaviour and attitudes at they get older. Look at the mess our schools are in since corporal punishment was abolished!! In other words, if they are naughty little persons now, chances are they will be naughty big persons when they grow up too... and hence the problems... Is there a right way and wrong way? Yes there is and if you've ever stood in a que at a checkout in a food store whilst some little angel demolishes the place under the watchfull gaze of this mother, who stands there watching him saying "don't do that darling" and the child taking absolutely no notice, then you know what the right method is!!!
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Posted By Tony Birchall
Irresponsible parents do tend to cause problems when they leave their kids un-attended. I know that from recent work in a large garden centre project I recently undertook. It should be compulsory for each parent to bring their own accident book and first aid kit !!
Jokes aside, my main area of concern was the human waste from flushing toilets that just ends up on the track. Are there no methods for retention of this waste. If it works on a National Express bus - surely it can work on a train??
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Posted By John Webster
I think Tony was referring to the contents of train toilets "dumping" straight onto the track (which is why one is not supposed to use them whilst standing at a station). I didn't realise this still happened, but if it does it must pose a health hazard to track workers.
I remember travelling through France by train a few years back. The loo just had an open bottom through the floor of the carriage.
Surely we have moved on?
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Posted By Tony Birchall
It looks like we have not moved on. I'm so suprised there is no waste collection system on these trains.
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Posted By J.Neill
Having dealt with a similiar situation within the railway industry, I believe that Train Operating Companies must look at there responsibilities.
This is both a Hygiene and an Enviromental Issue. With new units being put in place, then there should be modern waste appliances fitted to them?
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Posted By Roger Smith
I can't resolve the issue but I can tell you that there are plans afoot to improve things wherever possible.
Railway Safety has published the Railway Group Safety Plan for 2003/04. It outlines several objectives that organisations within the Railway industry should plan to address between now and December 2004.
Objective 5c:
"Railway Group Members will identify which of their obligations towards the health of their employees have particular relevance in the context of railways and determine the specific actions through which they will address the issues."
More specifically, it goes on to say;
"Toilet Discharge"
"Discharge from on-train toilets have been a concern for many years, affecting trackside workers and train operationg company maintenance staff. While there is little evidence of a specific health risk from sewage on the track, it is clearly unacceptable that staff should be expected to work where they may be directly exposed to hazardous substances - for example, where track workers might be sprayed by discharge from passing trains."
"Modern rolling stock is fitted with retention tanks, and train operators will assess whether it is reasonably practicable to retro-fit older stock. Train operators will ensure that every effort is made to discourage flushing of toilets in stations ad depots. on-train toilet maintenance regimes will be reviewed to minimise the likelihood of blockages."
Over time, as older stock is replaced, it is a problem that will go away, (except on historical or preservation railways that operate specifically with vintage stock). Otherwise the Train Operating Companies are obliged to look at the problem and decide what if anything can be done.
Roj
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