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Posted By Jason Gould
Have any other local authority safety officer etc gone to graveyards and knocked down headstones to test their stability without putting a massive add in paper to warn relatives that when visiting graves their headstones will be on the floor.
Bury times paper had article where this had been done in responce to a child being killed in salford.
Would just like a few comments to the tact used. I understand the reasoning but know they have created a trip hazard for ghost.
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Posted By Gavin Gibson
Assuming that none of the 'tenants' object, and assuming that they are responsible for the maintenance and upkeep of the cemetries, then I don't see any problem. Just carryout a risk assessment and beware of the manual handling issues.
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Posted By Hilary Charlton
You don't state whether, having knocked the headstone's down, they will be reinstated and at whose expense? I appreciate your problem and the amount of 'squirm' that obviously has to go into this kind of request, but perhaps the sweetener of reinstating the headstone straighter and stronger to last another 50 years would be enough incentive to gain the approval you seek???
However, for tact purposes, plain (but not blunt) speak and good detailed explanations generally serve. Euphamisms should be avoided at all costs.
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Hopefully this is with gravestones which are very old etc and have not been tended for some considerable time.
Understand the problem mate but you are really playing with peoples emotions here and unless it is handled extremely delicately and tactfully then may get an awful lot of angry and upset people.
Suppose you travelled a long way, maybe 'Australia' etc to visit grannie who you haven't seen for 60 years etc and find on arrival that her headstone has been 'vandalised'! and then find out, for whatever reason, it was done by the LA.
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Posted By Jim Walker
I deplore such actions and they are made considerably worst by using H&S as some sort of excuse, thus souring an important subject in the eyes of the general population. The world out there thus judges us all as interfering little jobworthies.
I see it as an excuse by the LA to avoid their duty in maintaining the cemeteries in a reasonable and proper condition. Someone at sometime paid (i.e. entered into a contract) for the burial plot and that payment included ongoing maintenance. LAs seem to be a unique group of organisations where lack of money is allowed to justify their disregard of their legal and moral duties. The rest of us would just be told it was no excuse and dragged off to court.
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Posted By Dave Wilson
Couldn't have put it better Jim but didn't know what the relationship between both parties would include.
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Posted By Jay Joshi There is an HSE/HELA Local Authority Circular, "MANAGEMENT OF UNSTABLE MEMORIALS". You can access it at:- http://www.hse.gov.uk/lau/lacs/23-18.htmI understand that there is a joint guide from The Association of Burial Authorities and Zurich Municipal titled "Safety in Burial Grounds"
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Posted By Paula Badger
The child killed at Salford is now part of what is the Trafford Council group in what used to be many small areas. In coming from Salford and having family of the 1921's buried in multiple paupers graves, these of my grandparents who died young are unstable due to the limestone deposits they are built on. Indeed, my father was a grave digger, sad reflection of a resistance sapper decorated in the second world war, but who fell in Urmston cemetary through 6 graves as coffins rotted and escaped only because he has another person to lift him out. There is little money spent on graveyard geology and maintaining for years a plot paid for for other descendants. They are in part land takers and fill a void in economic as well as social sectors. Much is made of funerals, but little on the safety of the diggers and those who frequent in urban sprawl or rural idealic surroundings the vast marble,granite or concrete slabs. There should be more care put into the industry that has a billion pound income in death, as with no graveyard, no funerals, no costs. The sea is the cheapest graveyard there is and used by mariners. Therefore, the upkeep of graveyards is the health and safety issue of the local authority leasing the land and the persons putting headstones up as fee paid contracts of trading. A life has been lost that could have been saved and what a way to die. Crushing injuries are very hard to treat even if there is someone to administer first aid, hypothermia in contact with the ground ensues. The answer is well kept and geological sampling of water and settelement around old gravestones and maybe cctv cameras in an age of vandalism.
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Posted By Martin In terms of carrying out the task of testing the memorials safely and not putting yourself at risk, there is a device which applies a measured force to the stones at www.toppletester.com. This site also recommends that stones are laid flat, labelled with the reasons for doing this and the owners contacted if possible. Seems like a reasonable approach to me (for the interim at least) as there have been a few tragic deaths in this country.
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Posted By Jason Gould
Thank you all
The last comments seem to be what has happened. Obviously these thing have to be done. It does however cause some uproar and i felt soory for the safety advisor as im sure he would have received some nasty post.
Well i know what i would do under such circumstances. I wonder that if theres any requirments that have now been put on the stonemasons etc. as to depth etc.
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Posted By Gary May
The issue of unstable memorials has been addressed by my own local authority, by survey of all memorials, competent training for graveyard staff, in testing and laying down of memorials. Each unsafe memorial is tagged and efforts made to contact NOK but when memorials have been in place for hundreds of years tracing a NOK can be difficult. The stonemasons are also involved with the process and are installing memorials to a specified standard. - This process of inspection and re installation is done in a sympathetic way.
Gary May
OMBC
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Posted By Darren Grey
In cases of immediate danger, burial authorities in England and Wales are empowered under the provisions of the Local Authorities Cemeteries Order 1977 Article 6(1) to take immediate action to make safe a dangerous memorial (this would include laying it flat). However, the burial authority are prohibited from taking direct action to remove an unstable memorial which presents no immediate risk without following the procedures laid down in Schedule 3 of the order (These include placing an ad in the local paper).
Also it is worth noting that not all burial authorities in the UK are LA's.
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