Welcome Guest! The IOSH forums are a free resource to both members and non-members. Login or register to use them

Postings made by forum users are personal opinions. IOSH is not responsible for the content or accuracy of any of the information contained in forum postings. Please carefully consider any advice you receive.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Admin  
#1 Posted : 14 May 2003 16:17:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert M Edwards The HSE have announced today that by the end of the year we should see the first prosecutions on the grounds of poor stress risk assessment. The Health & Safety Executive (HSE) is to introduce work-related stress audits in its routine health and safety inspections by the end of 2003, and will ultimately have the power to fine organisations that fail to introduce minimum standards. Employers will be obliged to carry out a risk assessment that identifying stress hazards, who might be harmed and how. They must then develop and follow through an action plan. It is likely that specific duties to certain groups of employees will develop through case law as a result. This will have a severe impact on the ever intertwined roles of HR and H&S and gaps identified on this site will have to be filled.
Admin  
#2 Posted : 14 May 2003 16:27:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Eric Burt I assume that the HSE have these in place for their inspectors, as they are carrying out a difficult role under varying conditions. Might it be a good start if they publicised these to show us a good example. Eric
Admin  
#3 Posted : 14 May 2003 16:45:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert M Edwards Ouch Eric! Good point though, and it is clear from the bulk of case law already on this area that a generic stress risk assessment will have almost no use. Given the areas I have built up over the other case law I am working on a risk assessment format now. As soon as it is ready for release on the web site I shall send it to you.
Admin  
#4 Posted : 14 May 2003 16:53:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Jim Walker Eric, I'll take all this with a pinch of salt. HSE seem to have difficulty getting a court case out of "visible injuries" let alone one that will result in a challenge as to any injury being present. HSE are due to miss their 2004 targets in "revitalising" by a mile. We had big hopes for "revitalising" didn't we folks, turned out to be more spin and no action. Eric, I agree with you - HSE inspectors must be highly stressed and on their money who would want it?
Admin  
#5 Posted : 14 May 2003 17:49:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert M Edwards I am unsuprised that there is more than a pinch of cyncism here. However, there is a case on appeal in the House Of Lords at the moment, one of the Hatton four which is being run on the issue of stress risk assessment. The limitations of the enforcing body will not stop the targets being set and these tend to materialise in case law.
Admin  
#6 Posted : 15 May 2003 10:41:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Eric Burt Thanks Robert I've read up on the "Hatton Four" but wasn't aware one of them had gone to the Lords. Do you have any more details or point me in the direction of further info? On the subject of stress, I picked up some excellent information from the IOSH conference in Glasgow from Robertson Cooper (Prof Carey Coopers company). They have a stress management training package (on a couple of CDs) and it looks really good. Unfortunately it is copyright (even though it was free), but if colleagues want to take a look at it I'm sure the company would oblige. They have a web-site www.robertsoncooper.com Many thanks Eric
Admin  
#7 Posted : 15 May 2003 11:16:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Robert M Edwards Yes, the case of Barber was lodged in the House of Lords in January, according to the listing officer the case will be set down for hearing later this year or early next. The judgment, when it happens, can be read on http://www.parliament.th...e.co.uk/pa/ld/ldhome.htm just follow the links for 'judicial work' and it updates the judgments as they are published. The case is being appealed on the lack of stress risk assessment involved and the QC handling the appeal has written extensively on this subject.
Admin  
#8 Posted : 15 May 2003 11:40:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Hilary Charlton I understand the principle, however, how can someone external assess what is stress to a particular individual? Surely what is good and healthy pressure to one is unhealthy stress to another, everyone is different. This is going to be excrutiatingly painful and probably inconclusive. This is also going to be made all the more trying by the Data Protection Act which ensure we don't know the history, background and nature of the person we are attempting to assess in conjunction with the job they are undertaking. Is it possible to go for 'self assessments'. This would be very much more useful, each person should be aware of what is their limit and should be in a position, having completed their assessment to discuss this with H&S, HR and/or Occupational Physician. This will then give us a true and accurate picture of each persons individual perception of their level of pressure and when this would become stress. I'd like to hear back on this if possible? Thanks Hilary
Admin  
#9 Posted : 15 May 2003 11:49:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Allan St.John Holt Hilary, Just another angle, but the way we've done it at Royal Mail is to look at the business unit and subject that to a stress risk assessment, rather than the individuals working in it. What that throws up is stressors within the working environment, of course, but that apply to everyone to some extent. Then working on those results depersonalises the process and it seems to work better that way. Maybe I'm not putting this very well, but it's another way of looking at the issue. Allan
Admin  
#10 Posted : 15 May 2003 11:57:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Jay Joshi It will be interesting to see how the HSE uses prosecution ( and not improvement notices/ formal advice) for enforcement action on employers not undertaking stress-risk assessments when the explicit Regulations/ ACoP on stress was not favoured by HSC during the last series of consultations. It was decided that research would be undertaken and a suite of "Stress Management Guidelines" would be published. There are HSE "Stress Management Standards" being piloted now before they are introduced nationally. I can understand enforcement officers using these standards as one of the tools during visits, but prosecution does not seem to be in line with HSE's Enforcement Policy unless an employer had not acted upon previous HSE enforcement advice etc.
Admin  
#11 Posted : 15 May 2003 14:01:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Hilary Charlton Thanks Allan I see how you are doing it and appreciate your response, however ... My argument is that we always look at the person completing the task where this is a risk factor - taking the human factor into account as in the Domino Theory. Working abstractly and assessing where there are particular stresses is good as long as it is then applied to the persons within that environment and tailored to their particular personality traits - this is where I have the problem. Sure I can risk assessments on the process, but surely this is an identification of the hazard or potential rather than a measure of the risk or likelihood? Hilary
Admin  
#12 Posted : 15 May 2003 14:23:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Eric Burt Hilary I think it would be very difficult for HSE to prove that an organisations' risk assessment for a particular individual was not suitable or sufficient. However, if an organisation had no stress risk assessments in place, yet there was evidence that employees' health was being adversely affected by their work, then I would see this as much more clear cut. Robert mentioned in this thread the Hatton case, and although it is civil law, this demonstrates to the HSE what a difficult and subjective topic this is. It's an issue that is not going to go away, so it's just a case of getting the stress policy in place, and identifying those areas of high risk (which I guess most orgaisations have done already, but maybe just not recorded on paper). Eric
Admin  
#13 Posted : 15 May 2003 16:29:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Hilary Charlton Yes, I have a stress policy in place which is a combination of work by myself and by the HR officer, however, this does require the person to identify that they may be stressed and to bring it to our attention. I shall go with the area risk assessment for the time being but try to rely still on people being up front enough to bring any problems to our attention. Thanks for the responses. Hilary
Admin  
#14 Posted : 15 May 2003 17:03:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Dave Daniel What Rubbish! I'd like to see the HSE try to take a case on stress, there is not a hope they could succeed as far as I can see. Speaking as a self-employed consultant, what about all the stress put on me by the Inland Revenue's attempts to milk the system for extra money for their coffers, not to mention daft HSE inspectors???? The people most stressed in the UK are small businessmen and the culprit for many of them is the UK goverment.
Admin  
#15 Posted : 15 May 2003 20:34:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Raymond Rapp Robert et al, I have noted the comments with interest and whilst I agree with many, there are a number of contentious factors I would like to respond to. Occupational Stress is a complex and common problem and employers have a moral and legal duty to protect the health and well-being of their employees. What's wrong with that? The only practical way of identifying psychosocial hazards is via a risk assessment, which is mandatory under the MHSWRegs. Normally a employee attitude survey (questionnaire) is used to identify the hazard - risk - harm relationships. The Keil Centre have done much research in this area and recommend that 'individual and group' factors should be identified via the risk assessment, so that common as well as individual stressors can be identified. Primary interventions should then follow. The fact is many employers ignore basic requirements and without prescriptive legislation, some only implement stress controls as a means of protection against claims and compensation. Where is the moral imperative? I accept that some employees use stress as an excuse for whatever reason, nevertheless most controls are not 'rocket science', and is really an extension of a good and caring management. Now who will own up to not having stress assessments or controls. I rest my case !! Ray
Admin  
#16 Posted : 16 May 2003 07:33:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Eric Burt Dave Thank you for the Consultants perspective on stress. Could you please point me in the direction of the research confirming that small businessmen / women are the most stressed in the country as I am unaware of this study. My wife runs her own business and I am sure she will also be interested in reading this information. many thanks Eric
Admin  
#17 Posted : 16 May 2003 08:55:00(UTC)
Rank: Guest
Admin

Posted By Geoff Burt Dave Daniel - I'm happy to recommend a good accountant which would help relieve some of your stress. Like Eric, I'd also be interested in any research on stress in small businesses. Personally, I'll think you'll find that ill health absences for stress in small firms is low or non existent. Not that stress doesn't exist but if you don't work you don't get paid. Ray Rapp - Well said, nicely put and in a nutshell. I can see an opening here for stress risk assessors! Geoff
Users browsing this topic
Guest
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.