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#1 Posted : 06 August 2003 15:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Des Daly I am currently being hounded by a client that requires method statements for the minor construction work we are carrying out to be morelike an extremely detailed explanantion of the work process ( they are actually objecting to the font we use (Arial)). They request that the Method Statements are written for people with no prior knowledge or training for the work. They use the analogy of a person hammering a nail into a wall. Process would be:- 1. Purchase nails 2. Take nails to site 3. Use hammer ( wooden handle 1kg steel hammer head). 4. Take single nail 5. Hold nail in fingers of hand not going to be used to swing hammer. 6. Pick up hammer and strike end of nail with sufficient force to drive it wholly or partially into the material being nailed into. 7. hammer to be raised and then force applied through the arm Blah! Blah! Blah! I feel that their obsession with detail is losing the purpose of the Method Statement - it is reducing it to a backside covering inurance/risk management exercise. I do not see the point of writing out reams of drivel when what is required is a safe system of work that is easily understood and communicable to those carrying out the work. Before sticking in heels I would appreciate the views of my peers on 'Method Statements - their role in improving health and safety'
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#2 Posted : 06 August 2003 15:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason Gould A Manacher who was creating a qhse manual for a 1000+ comar site stated that it is insulting to put forward a method statement telling a driver how to drive or a brickie how to lay bricks. He covered himself by explaining all the safety points of the particular job that is to be followed bla bla. But also had documents providing the skills of the workers etc training they had received. You should not need to cover how to guides to tradesmen when things like hammer etc are pecunticular to their jobs. You should have proof you have looked at their abilities training etc.
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#3 Posted : 06 August 2003 16:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Craythorne Des, A method statement is a detailed safe system of work derived from the process of risk assessment. It should be explanatory but concise and leave no element of doubt but allow for the exisitng knowledge, experience and training of the people who are to work to it. To go to the extent that you described is pure lunacy and will end up with a method statement that is treated with contempt by the workforce and not used. Hope this helps. Regards, Paul Craythorne
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#4 Posted : 06 August 2003 21:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Sedgwick Des I wouldn’t take the hammer and nail analogy literally. The client obviously feels vulnerable and lacking confidence in the people he is employing, or the contract that he is involved in. Show him your Policies, Procedures, HS Organisation, Arrangements and Rules etc. Then ask to look at some of his own method statements so that you may tailor yours to meet the very high standard of his. Have camera ready to photograph the look on his face. The point is that from your description this mans HS Management knowledge is very, very poor and his companies Method Statements / Safe Working Practices will not be of a high standard. They will certainly not be as he requests from you. Steve PS In the distant past I have seen a HSE leaflet outlining how to write Method Statements.
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#5 Posted : 07 August 2003 06:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Graham Sargeant Des, I agree this approach to a MS is mad, what use is a document that no one will read. I have had similar experiences where a client was more concerned with the layout of a document than its content. When I check contractors MS Im happy for example if it refers to a recognised safe system of work (eg. the use of SG4 when errecting scaffold), overkill of detail means the document loses its purpose.
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#6 Posted : 07 August 2003 09:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Turner I agree with Steve's approach. I have had experiences with this type of client,and normally when you ask them to "demonstrate" or "show me some others", they tend to back off quite quickly. It can be a tricky situation, but I would advise that you stand your ground. As long as you are satisfied, then fine.
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#7 Posted : 07 August 2003 09:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Stone Does anyone know if the HSE document on Method Statments still exsists, Ive had a look on their website but cant find it? Ian
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#8 Posted : 07 August 2003 14:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Sweetman Des, Your problem is certainly a familiar one, I normally find that the more a person asks for detail, the less they know what thay are talking about. Unfortunately, the Client is the one paying the bill and it is up to you, or your organisation, to decide if you really want to work for them. As they are paying the bill, they can tend to call the tune. However, a bit of diplomacy does not go amiss. Steve makes a very good point. In fact, I can add to it by saying that you would need to get detailed info from the Client in order to 'tailor' your work to thei situation eg if they want detail of the type of hammer you will use, then you would need to know what type(s) of hammer their procedures allow. A few points to 'diplomatically' consider: - their requirements are extras, hence a need to charge them for extra time etc. - in line with what they ask for, you would naturally require some form of written approval (that can focus the mind a bit!). - ascertain who is going to review/assess your MS. - telling them that the more information that you give them, the more you may be increasing their liability (especially if you identify something that requires action on their part). - remind them that they prudently chose your organisation for it's competence and high standards. I'm sure an open discussion,and other contributors to this forum, would be able to expand on many ways of dealing with this. Maybe as part of Corporate Social Responsibility (?). In any case, make sure your 'detailed' MS is written on soft paper as it can then be used in the 'smallest room in the house' without attracting undue moans. Good luck. Jim
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#9 Posted : 07 August 2003 15:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Smurfer Des - I think this may be the document Ian's thinking of. Some brief info on method statements is given in "Safe erection of structures. Part 1: initial planning and design" HSE 1984. Where appropriate, method statements should include: (a) arrangements for scheme management, including scheme coordination and the responsibilities and authority of supervisory personnel at all levels; (b) erection sequences, noting the scheduled starting position, or positions if phased construction is required; (c) methods of ensuring stability at all times of individual members (including columns) and sub-assemblies, as well as the partially erected structure; (d) the detailed method of erecting the structure, the erection scheme, which should be devised to ensure that activities such as lifting, unslinging, initial connecting, alignment and final connecting can be carried out safely; (e) provisions to aid the prevention of falls from height, including safe means of access and safe places of work: these may include special platforms and walkways; arranging to complete permanent walkways early; mobile towers, aerial platforms; slung, suspended or other scaffolds; secured ladders; safety harnesses and safety nets; (f) protection from falls of materials, tools and debris by the provision of barriers such as screens, fans and nets; (g) the provision of suitable plant (including cranes) as well as tools and equipment of sufficient strength and quantity; (h) contingency arrangements should there be, for instance, a breakdown of essential plant, or if components are delivered out of sequence; (j) arrangements for delivery, stacking, storing, movement on site, on-site fabrication or pre-assembly and the siting of offices and mess rooms; (k) details of site features, layout and access, with notes on how these may affect proposed arrangements and methods of working. Appendix C Although the format of method statements may vary they should: (a) form a single document, preferably including annotated diagrams; (b) be capable of being modified to cater for any planned change in the system of work; (c) be indexed for ease of reference; (d) follow a logical sequence, have each stage of the sequence clearly titled and be concise and unambiguous; (e) refer to the grid line and member identification marks; (f) be clearly marked with the date of preparation and revision number or letter, where applicable, so that the issue being used at any instant can be identified readily. 2 Many tasks are repetitive and may be covered by standard sheets. Activities which are critical to safe erection however should be specified in full on each new document. Text should be succinct. Probably doesn't help you though ;-)
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#10 Posted : 07 August 2003 16:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch Des Suggest you refer them to paragraph 6 of the CDM ACOP/Guidance + other parts of HSG224 which highlight the need for documentation to be concise, focused and proportionate to the size, complexity and risk of the job. Similar comments are made in Report 172 "CDM - Practical guidance for clients and clients' agents" published by the Construction Industry Research and Information Association, CIRIA [production of 172 co-funded by HSE] Peter Peter
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