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#1 Posted : 03 October 2003 15:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Patrick Teyhan Esteemed Colleagues, hopefully the less argumentative of you will offer sound information to resolve the situation I find myself in. Our recognised trade union representative has asked for x2 enforcing authorities HSE and Fire Inspector to visit our premises and comment on the refurbishment and installation of our office of the future setup. I am unaware of what problem the Trade Union Representative has with the new setup (apart from not being consulted) Is there any legislative clout I can use to get this representative to provide me with the information he has provided to the enforcing authorities, before they turn up? Regards Patrick
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#2 Posted : 03 October 2003 15:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Lance Morgan I suspect that they will write/or telephone you or your CE and say they have been informed about concerns from one of your employees regarding such and such and ask you to respond to those concerns. If they visited every time somebody rang them up - they would never be in the office.
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#3 Posted : 03 October 2003 15:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Patrick Teyhan The problem I have is, the HSE and fire inspectors are turning up and I do not know what for, what should I expect? I have asked the Safety Representatives, Senior representative, for information but have been informed that the local representative is dragging his feet and being aloof with them. What can I do to get him to spill the beans before the enforcing authorities arrive? Regards (frantik) Patrick
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#4 Posted : 03 October 2003 15:22:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Murphy Easy one here I think. HASAWA Section 7, presumably the TU Rep is an employee, and also Reg 14 of the Management of HASAW Regs 1999. From the text of Reg 14 MHSWR 1999 Employees Duties Para 85 "Employees’ duties under section 7 of the HSW Act include co-operating with their employer to enable the employer to comply with statutory duties for health and safety. Under these Regulations,employers or those they appoint (eg under regulation 7) to assist them with health and safety matters need to be informed without delay of any work situation which might present a serious and imminent danger. Employees should also notify any shortcomings in the health and safety arrangements, even when no immediate danger exists, so that employers can take remedial action if needed. Take a look at the ACoP's. Also, why not try talking to the rep nicely!! Good luck!
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#5 Posted : 03 October 2003 15:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Arran Linton - Smith Simple, Section 7 of the Health and Safety Act. Quoting from Principals of Health and Safety at Work (Allan St John Holt) “they (employees) must also co-operate with their employer to comply with his duties under the Act”. If you have asked the rep for that information and they are being uncooperative discreetly let the enforcement agencies know. I am sure that you have already written to the rep concerned.
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#6 Posted : 03 October 2003 22:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By Allan St.John Holt Arran's right (but I would say that!) and co-operation takes both parties to exchange information. You would have every right to be irritated by this, providing of course that you have done nothing to provoke the present situation! Either way, a straight talk would be a good idea, and if this is refused you should consider withdrawing recognition of the safety rep for failure to comply with Regulations and ACoP. Allan
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#7 Posted : 04 October 2003 23:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor - and if he doesn't respond to a consultative chat, I'd be inclined to write to him expressing sorrow in learning that he was aware of a need to call in the enforcing authorities and confirming your wish to be made aware of the health and safety problem so that you can take any necessary and appropriate action in the interest of the employees and others who may be affected.
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#8 Posted : 05 October 2003 01:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ian Clay Patrick, I agree with the others in the thread about passing on the information to yourself. The concern I have is that it seems you to have not been forthcoming with information, e.g. consultation over the new set-up. Isn't there something about consulting reps and the workforce over any change in th workplace or work practices. May I suggest this has been the starting point for the lack of co-operation?
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#9 Posted : 05 October 2003 13:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson I would emphasise what Paul said above: if there is a problem serious enough to make a complaint to the authorities, then the rep should notify the employer. The relevant law to quote at the rep would be from the Management Regs: Regulation 14(2).
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#10 Posted : 06 October 2003 10:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Patrick, Oh deary me! I wouldnt get in a panic mate, as an ex H&S Enforcement Officer I would suggest that if you are worried that there may be something wrong then you will know this and can fix it, if not then you can use the expertise of these people to identify and give soultions to problems which come up. The visit of a Enf Officer from HSE,LA,EA, FA or wherever should be seen as on opportunity to get real advice and form closer working relationships with them and should not be discouraged. Forget about reg this and reg that and law this etc and concentrate on communication and building bridges with the TU rep to insill a better working relationship buddy as at the end of the day you both have to work together to ensure it is safe and that the business thrives. One small phone call and look at the panic and ultimately the cost this has made to your company by a breakdown in communication.
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#11 Posted : 06 October 2003 22:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil Humphrey Hi Esteemed may I take EX safety rep? Have we forgotten all the things that you learned on the TUC courses? As An ex class member of 2000 TUC cert, I am suprised that you are having trouble with a TU safety rep, try going back into your work folders, the answers there. PHIL
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#12 Posted : 06 October 2003 22:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michael Miller Forget all the legal gaggle and pun! what is required here is some honest to goodness consultation. Something that failed to take place in the first instance. I take it that the safety rep never got the info he was asking for that is why he went to the authorities. If a kind word fails to deter him, write to the branch safety officer who will make him/her tell you what you want to know. As a safety advisor in an organisation you can put all the building blocks in place as much as you want. However if you fail to engage the employees you have wasted your time. Consultation and participation is the key to a good health and safety culture. Mike
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#13 Posted : 07 October 2003 07:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tom Mahoney Dear Patrick, there seems to be a break down in trust between you and your safety rep. You will know, (as an ex safety rep yourself), that safety reps provide a useful purpose in the workplace.They act as a conduit for information to and from your staff, also they provide a secoundary auditing system, highlighting weaknesses in the management safety system. Instead of forcing information from the safety rep, (and in the process alienating him/her for some time to come), try meeting with him/her to find out why he/she feels that the only way to resolve problems is to seek outside help. Safety management works best when all parties are working together in partnership towards a common end. The safety of all.
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#14 Posted : 07 October 2003 12:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gilly Margrave I find Mike's suggestion that the Branch H&S officer will "make" him/her tell you what you want to know interesting. If only I had that power! However as a Branch H&S Officer I am usually willing to mediate where communications between my Safety Reps and management appears to have broken down. Gilly
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#15 Posted : 12 October 2003 21:43:00(UTC)
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Posted By GMJ Patrick, I'm wondering which head I should put on to answer this question - TU Safety Rep, Branch TU H&S Officer or Local Authority H&S Enforcement Officer! No matter. The real problem is of course COMMUNICATION. The Safety Rep should have communicated his concerns to you and to his employer, as per his Safety Rep training. You should have communicated the necessary information to the Safety Rep, and then, maybe, this situation would not have occured. I don't have many Safety Reps to communicate with, but it's still important to keep in touch with them.
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#16 Posted : 13 October 2003 14:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason Gould Hi Without being provocative I would Like to speculate a little here. 1> Yes MHSW reg could be used but by doing this you would smell the stink on the moon and I personally I think all employee credibility for Either yourself/company and safety authorities in general will damaged for years. 2> I Agree the safety rep could be well out of order from the sounds of things but Just wandering if normal steward issues are lingering here i.e. work practices etc. 3> As someone has suggetsted it may be better to let it ride and face the authorites with your predicamnet. This way you would show that your looking at a bigger picture (hence trying to establish a positive safety culture) 4> At some point in the future I would try better communication practices with all employees on matters of safety. You may wish to try and get the meaning of reasonably practicable accross a little better.(dont envy you) Hope You both reach a suitable solution with the interest of the majority in mind. Good Luck Jason
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#17 Posted : 14 October 2003 17:36:00(UTC)
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Posted By Patrick Teyhan My estemmed colleagues, thank you for taking the time and trouble to respond. I have taken great comfort and encouragement from your "Wise Words". The problem seems to be en-route to resolution, the TU reps gripe about non-consultation has led to poor communications but with the intervention of Colleagues from Senior Management and Senior Trade Union Side and with the HSE asking the local TU representative to keep them informed of progress,I believe we are on to a win, win situation. Once again thank you for your input. Regards (not so frantic) Patrick
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#18 Posted : 15 October 2003 10:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Nice one mate as they say 'its good to talk!'
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