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#1 Posted : 05 December 2003 21:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle I attended a meeting of an Industry sector body the other day, also attended by HSE regularly. It was interesting to note that during the meeting one of the HSE officials attending declared that HSE will be moving away from writing/producing 'guidance' in the future to concentrate on enforcement (efficiencies!!) and will be be expecting trade bodies, trade organisations and industries to produce their own guidance relevant to the industry sector. Food for thought....
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#2 Posted : 07 December 2003 21:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim O'Dwyer Hi Stuart, What you say is interesting, because in an interview with Radio 4 presenter Liz Barclay on the 16th June 2003, the HSE's Deputy Director General, Justin McCracken said "We are actually increasing the amount of resource for help and advice for employers." So if, as you say, the HSE is going to step away from providing guidance, it is a 'U turn' in Policy. I think the 'change of mind' is probably linked to the question of liability for outcomes of subsequent use / reliance on the Guidance provided (and prompted by speculation on the outcome of Thames Trains' claim of proportionate liability!!) I believe that trade bodies, trade organisations and industries should act immediately to protect themselves against this 'evasion of responsibility' by the HSE. If they don't they are going to have to accept the liability themselves - which could be very costly!! Food for thought indeed! Best wishes, Jim O'Dwyer
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#3 Posted : 08 December 2003 13:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jay Joshi This is one of the questions/issues under consultation in the HSC's document "A Strategy for Workplace Health and Safety in Great Britain to 2010 and beyond" The consultation ended on 1 December 2003. In fact in some areas, the HSE has been doing just that. The detailed technical guidance for storage & use of LPG is from LPGA--not from HSE. The same applies to "Petrol filling stations : construction and operation" - HS(G)41-This has been superseded by, "Guidance for the design, construction, modification and maintenance of filling stations." from The Institute of Petroleum and APEA. There are professional & trade bodies that do produce reliable & authoritative guidance--why re-invent the wheel as long as the guidance is referred to in HSC ACoPs and other general guidance Some professional and trade bodies are better placed in producing the guidance. For example, during the run up to DSEAR, the HSE also consulted on the LPGA guidance for LPG for the DSEAR changes. As long as adequate consultations does take place with all relevant stakeholders, including HSE, it does not matter that an organisation other than the HSE has published the guidance if that organisation has the expertise.
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#4 Posted : 09 December 2003 13:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch Eureka Of course Lord Robens envisaged that much of the guidance would be drafted by those that know their own processes with a view to some then being adopted as ACOPs. Precious little evidence of this happening in practice, apart from the odd BS. May be the guidance would be more helpful with less of HSE trying to cover their back by making everything goal setting with little practical guidance! Regards, Peter
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#5 Posted : 09 December 2003 14:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Daniel When the HASAWA was introduced in 1975 many industry bodies set out to prepare and propose Codes of Practice for approval. The HSC steadfastly refused to approve any ACOPS which it itself had not written. I have seen comments somewhere in HSE published documents also proposing the abandonment of ACOPS. There are also suggestions that enforcement might be delegated even further.... Interesting to see what HSE inspectors will actually be doing....! Personally I think this is a good thing, after all, there's generally very little real guidance in most HSE guidance documents and ACOPS. Industry standards are be much more specific and pragmatic.
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