Posted By ian mcnally Over a number of years it has become more apparent in my industry at least, that Doctors sign people off work for just about anything. Whilst I fully appreciate the difficult position doctors are in, I am struggling to find a solution to establish if people have; A, Been genuinely injured at work – E.g; Thursday afternoon back injuries and strains are common and create reporting problems too! B, Are unwilling to identify the real issues which may be causing ill health problems, this could be exacerbated by work (we do have a stress policy) c, Been preparing the ground for a future claim or D, Light on moral fibre and are just malingerers? I'm not realy uncaring just fed up with what appear to be feeble excuses. Return to work interviews with line managers are of limited help and I have been thinking about employing the services of an occupational nurse ( a scary one if possible)specifically to tackle these issues and also to devise a new policy to assist with a mounting problem. If anyone has had similar experiences and come up with a good solution that has assisted in identifying those with genuine needs and discouraged others from taking a sicky / preparing a future claim. I would be most grateful, alternatively any useful O H contacts covering the South East would be most appreciated too. thanks Ian

Posted By Paul Craythorne Ian, One of my former companies employs an occupational health nurse and physician to attack these problems at the outset. This includes home visiting in the first day or so of the sickness absence. Obviously this has to be done in a caring and considerate manner but it does have an impact on absence. I have a contact in Surbiton in Surrey for occupational health management/absence management - Alison Persson of Catalyst 123 on 0208 3992377/07885 753000. Regards, Paul Craythorne

Posted By John Murgatroyd Oh well, welcome to GBR 2004. By all means introduce the doctor/nurse thing. Also noting that ALL info gained by them must be confidential and you cannot make it available generally to all and sundry in management. You will have to have a "nominated person" who will hold the info under lock-and-key. Employees have a right, in law, to have all personal info about them kept strictly confidential. The DPA 1998 (seventh principle) requires that only appropriate and DESIGNATED members of staff who NEED access to personal info should have access to it. Personally, I think you should tread carefully. I have personal knowledge of one person who had the "human resources" people call on him every day when he was off sick....they so peed him off that he went to his doctor, got a referral to a specialist and then on the basis of the examination a solicitor claimed for a back injury and the insurance eventually paid him nearly 50K. He was only off work with flu. In fact several of the human resources (nice words...for personnel) came down with flu shortly after...I take it that this would also apply to management, and up to board level ? If not, it could look like discrimination.....after all, the friday "board meetings" are just another word for a free [expletive deleted]-up ? And of course, if one person successfully claims for anything the flood gates usually open wide. Especially if the workforce is sufficiently angry. I'd always recommend that every person off sick with an injury asks his doctor if it could be as a result of work. May pay the mortgage off. What's the point of having liability insurance of you never use it !!

Posted By Kate Graham Karen: "General debility" is a euphemism for "depression" to avoid the stigma of being diagnosed with a mental illness.

Posted By Ron Young If you genuinely want to get a true reflection on an absent persons alleged injury whether to find out what they can and can't do and to possibly back you in a claims situation, there is a test undertaken by specialists called Functional Capacity Evaluation (FCE). It is a computer based set of repetitive tests designed to assess a persons limits to what they are capable of doing, it is claimed to be nigh on impossible to fool these tests. It is more and more being used by insurers involved in compensation claims. They are expensive c£900 but when the word gets out, you won't have to do too many excpet for those who are really injured, when it will be beneficial for them.

Posted By Sean Fraser I am encouraged that we are starting to discuss issues realting to mental health. For too long, this has been the poor cousin of the Health Service and worse, a matter for prejudice and persecution. Times are now changing and there is now a recognition in the medical world that mental health is a critical component for overall well-being. The days are coming when the focus will be on diagnosis and treatment, rather than simply containment which has been the policy for so long. As those of you who are based in Scotland will already know, the Scottish Executive are tackling the negative perceptions relating to mental ill-health with the same determination as they are tackling racism - let us hope that general attitudes start to improve as a result. For those of you who may be interested in following up the subject, I would recommend the following links: Link for information on Mental Health First Aid (currently being introduced in Scotland): http://www.show.scot.nhs...health/mental_health.htm General Mental Health on HEBS site: http://www.hebs.com/topics/mentalhealth/index.htm MIND - the mental health charity: http://www.mind.org.uk/

Posted By John Murgatroyd Yes, but. Is this for all employees or just the hourly-paid ones ? In my company the salaried staff take FAR more "sick" leave than the hourly paid workers. And they spend it recuperating in places like Spain..So, they get 6 weeks paid leave per year, take about 2 weeks more "unpaid" as "sick". Mind you, they never seem to be missed...... Anyway, back to the OHS...salaried as well as hourly paid ?.

Posted By Kieran Duignan The discussion on this subject has overlooked one of the issues raised, namely the apparent tendency of general medical practitioners to display inattention to valid concerns of employers when they write a sick note for an employee whom they see as a patient. A useful perspective on this was given to me recently by a g.p. in another country, who observed, 'I hear that GPs in the UK are generally demoralised'. To the extent that this may be the case, employers would be well advised to take initiatives to win the understanding of g.ps. Options available include action at company level in the form of a questionnaire for a g.p. to complete indicating the category of illness/malaise (in terms of the employer's choice) affecting an absent employee. Options available through IOSH, possibly in association with POOSH nationally or simply the CIPD locally, include educational events for doctors and nurses, as well as campaigning to relevant DoH and DWP ministers.

Posted By Gavin Also, speek to your insurers, a lot of them now have back to work support programs taht will include the assessment and provision of therapies - it costs you nothing and they benefit from lower claims.

Posted By Alec Wood John, I think maybe you are a voice in the wilderness here. There is a general view, obviously also held by some contributors to this forum, that any hourly paid staff who get ill are shirkers, salaried ones are undoubtably really ill and need support. I would be interested to see how these policies that treat the two "classes" of staff so differently stand up in tribunals etc. How can it be reasonable to take action against a shop floor fitter for absence but accomodate the same from a member of the purchasing staff for example. I hope that people will start doing a few "what if" scenario test on their policies before implementing them because these things are almost impossible to change once set. Loyal staff may be penalised simply because their situation was never considered at the time the policy was written. For example, we use an attendance bonus and a disciplinary approach to absence. I have had no sickness absence in four years then a few years ago I had cancer - not my fault - and had to take seven months off work while having chemotherapy. The company were very supportive during that time and I received full sick pay, beyond my contractural entitlement. When I returned to work I was required to attend hospital for regular checkups to make sure the treatment had worked and the cancer not returned. Company policy meant that each attendance requiring time off work was counted as one absence and thus I was ineligable for attendance award for five years from my return to work and subject to a disciplinary hearing during the first two! HR dept was very apologetic, my circumstance had never occured before amongst our staff and had not been considered when the policy was written, but the attitude was very much "It is company policy, there's nothing we can do". Carelessly worded absence and sickness policies can lead to huge staff resentment as you rightly point out. This in turn impact quality and productivity. "Carrot and stick" is often mentioned, it's a shame that so often it is the office staff who always get the carrot and the shop floor the stick! Alec Wood Samsung Electronics