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#1 Posted : 29 April 2004 13:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Terry Hill How do you determine if workwear is either classed as uniform or PPE? If a healthcare worker is subject to possible daily exposure of bodily fluids e.g. blood, is there any regulations that force the employer to provide replacement uniforms at regular intervals or even at all?
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#2 Posted : 29 April 2004 14:04:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave Wilson Sinmple read the PPE regs its in there Basically if something is issued to the employee to convey the 'corporate image' it is uniform, if it is issued as a result of a Risk Ass to reduce the risk of being injured hurt etc it is PPE Free leaflet on HSE www as well
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#3 Posted : 29 April 2004 14:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser Terry, Quite simply, if the "uniform" is being provided to protect the employee from exposure to a hazard then it is quite simply PPE, and is therefore covered under Section 9 of the big one, Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 and the Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regs 1992 (although the latter don't refer to charging, they are raised through the enabling Act and hence this automatically applies without re-iteration). Just 'cos they all look the same doesn't make them a uniform!
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#4 Posted : 30 April 2004 07:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gavin I would agree with all said, but the lines get more blurred when a uniform jacket has a high vis patch on it. That aside, check out the requirements of the PPE regs - reg 7, duty to maintain and replace / clean. In addition, the simple answer is do the risk assessment and decide for yourselves. Alternatively, why not contact other HSE / risk personnel in other hospital trusts and see how they handle the issue. Regards Gavin
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#5 Posted : 30 April 2004 08:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Terry Hill Thanks for the reply's, I must admit to the lines being a bit blurred between the two. Would then a nurses uniform be classed as PPE? It conveys both a corporate image, rank and offers some protection against workplace hazards.
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#6 Posted : 30 April 2004 08:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By steve williamson Hi Terry, The health care workers uniform is corporate image/recognition. The PPE as far as accidental inoculations go is the gloves, disposable apron, mask, eyeshields worn to break the possible transmission path whenever a foreseeable opportunity for contact exists. Hope this is Helpful, Steve
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#7 Posted : 03 May 2004 19:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Raymond Rapp Just to 'muddy the water' - it is an interesting and contentious issue. For example, in my organisation Dr Martin shoes are provided for most employees, working in a railway environment they an essential item. However, they are not classified as PPE. A person can wear alternative footwear provided it meets the company standard of being black in colour and rubber soled. In theory at least, you can wear anything from Caterpillar boots to training shoes. Although managers may require a Doctor's note for the latter. Who said common sense does not prevail. Ray
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#8 Posted : 04 May 2004 08:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alec Wood It's heartening to see such common sense displayed in an area which has a reputation of being bound in rigid rule and convention. I had an interesting situation to deal with recently. We provide safety boots to the employees who require them, most of the shop floor and warehouse staff. In an attempt to be reasonable, I set a price limit, negotiated a good discount from Arco, and made available a choice of around 12 styles of footwear. There were still a couple of unhappy punters but I managed to satisfy them on an individual basis so everyone was happy(ish). We use a lot of agency workers here. The agency employ them and provide their uniform and PPE as required. They charge the employees for the uniform, but the PPE is supposed to be issued free. I had wished the agency to offer the same choice of footwear as was offered to our direct staff, so I ordered the footwear on their behalf at the discounted price. It came to light after some months that the agency were issuing these as "uniform" and charging for it, and at the undiscounted price! Nothing I could say to their legal department would convince them that there was anything illegal in this, immoral? yes, but prosecutable? no. Their final position was that they were unlikely to be complained against (due to ignorance of staff) to HSE so unlikely to be prosecuted so they would continue to issue footwear as uniform and charge staff as before. What do you do when a manager just refuses to acknowledge the law? Lucky for me they weren't my managers, but how would I have dealt with this if their attitude had been shared by my management too? My only solution was to take the issue of PPE out of their control and do it ourselves, thankfully I had management support and was able to extend my budget to cover it. I was of the opinion that we may be deemed to be their employers despite them being contracted to the agency, since we set the hours and conditions of work. The agency in question is one of the top ten in the UK and the largest in this area, and continues to see PPE requirements as a money making opportunity. To my knowledge they have never been prosecuted for this or any other H&S offence. Alec Wood Samsung Electronics
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#9 Posted : 04 May 2004 09:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser Alec, Not taking issue with your response, but I was curious as to why: 1] you, as a recognised and respected (and large!) employing company, have not reported the abuse indirectly to the HSE on behalf of those less likely to, and 2] why you would not seek to replace the agency with an alternate provider who does actually take due recognition of their legal responsibilities? Agency workers will be unwilling to jeopardise their prospects by complaining - of all those in the employment pecking order, they are the weakest and most under-supported of them all. Blacklisting, persecution, peer resentment - who'd willingly place themselves in that position? Not many, and each and every one that does is a true hero who would place principles above their own circumstances and the injustices they might suffer as a consequence. But it is easier to keep stumm - keep your head down and do your three monkeys, and you'll get by. Is getting by the best we can offer though? The agency is not being penalised for their intransigence - if anything, they will now feel they are being rewarded and hence justified for their actions and even less likely to deal with it. The agency worker has until recently been a much maligned and oft-abused creature, operating on the fringes of the vibrant economy we are persistently being reminded of by our political masters. It is no accident that the decrease in recorded unemployment co-incided with the increase in agency work - they were cheap disposable workers who provided employer with the "flexibility" to operate in a "competitive" economy. The damage to individual lives that this corporate philosophy has engendered is incalculable. And the long and bitter fight to give the agency worker the basic human dignity of employment protection showed up the attitudes of the agencies and in many cases the employers who used them - people were simply assets to be bought, sold or discarded as the whims of short-termism dictated. It was a good day for the British economy when these people finaly achieved the same basic minimums protecting their rights that we full-time employees have taken for granted for so long. The employers are the ones who have the power in this relationship, yet they often seem to abdicte their responsibilities by claiming they have little or no control over what the employment agencies do. Not true. For those who operate with a sense of fairness and ethical behaviour, they can eventually squeeze out these disreputable agencies and give the agency worker the assurance of fair and balanced treatment. Unfortunately, that would be a long-term goal and would cost money at the beginning, so who is willing to "take the hit" as others continue to mis-use their agnecy workers in the name of competition? Too few, and there in lies the problem. Whole industries are based on the agency or contract worker - nothing inherently wrong in that, as long as they are treated with the same respect and afforded the same conditions as direct employees expect and receive.
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#10 Posted : 04 May 2004 10:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alec Wood Hi Sean The shameful truth is that I was new, on probation, did not feel secure in my role and chickened out of fighting a behind the scenes politic that I felt inable to influence so I concentrated on what I felt my primary responsibility, the safety of the employees. I had hoped that the massive increase to my budget that this necesitated would have caused questions to be asked and the answers to those questions I gave have the desired effect of removing this agency from its virtual monopoly of provision. Unfotunately events overtook me and as you may know, our parent company has taken the decision to close their UK facility and move production to other parts of the world where labour is cheaper, notably Slovakia and Malaysia where we already have large facilities. It's often difficult dealing with the foreign management, they have an entirely different cultural attitude to health and safety and also to how they deal with suppliers. In Korea, a machine might not be guarded by anything more than a red line on the floor. If you put your hand in the machine you are very stupid. Korean workers can be relied upon to never cross the red line so a guard is thought unnecessary, not here! Such a core cultural difference in basic human attitudes and behaviours is difficult to relate to, and it is therefore difficult for a Korean to see the logic in many of our regulatory requirements, and thus appreciate the gravity of their breach. Looking back, I agree I could have handled things differently and probably better, been more insistent of action, made that phone call, etc. but that's easy to say in hindsight. I think that next time the situation arises the experience I have had may make my choices different; as they say "live and learn". I did manage to secure a substantial financial penalty against the agency exceeding their loss in revenue from cheating their employees so they were not in any way rewarded. Reviews were initiated with management and our procedures changed to close the holes in our management systems that allowed this situation to develop in the first place. So in the end a good result was obtained. Alec Wood Samsung Electronics
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