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#1 Posted : 04 June 2004 12:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Giles Davis
I'm in the process of producing a form for employees to sign following the provision of in-house training.

Can anyone tell whether it is legal to ask the employee to not only sign for the training they have received, but also to sign for their understanding and acceptance of their responsibilities under HSWA section 7 and MSHWR reg 14? or perhaps their responsibilities under the PPE at Work regs?

Regards

Giles
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#2 Posted : 04 June 2004 13:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By james mackie
Hi Giles

The easiest way to complete this process is to get everyone to sign in at the start to prove that they have attended (and not gone elsewhere).

Secondly, carry out a test (multi choice) at the end which they must pass to confirm that they are employed as a safe person. Your test questions will have confirmed their understanding of the training and retension of knowledge.

Keep the sign in register and completed tests under lock and key and you have proof of their understanding of their duties.


good luck

jim
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#3 Posted : 04 June 2004 13:24:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Giles,

Can't see any reason why not. However, my experience has shown that most sign without fuss but there are always some who will score out sections, amend the form, or refuse to sign for fear of later retribution (real or imagined).

As for legality . . . depends on how the court views it. If you make it an extension of the contract of employment (a suitable clause relating to provision and use of training) then signature would be accepted as the acknowledgement of the employee that they have received the training - but it is harder to prove that they have understood it unless you applied some method of verification (tests, role play, assessment etc.). However, provision of testing can simply be proved by having attendance lists, evidence of purchase (for external or in-house courses provided by external agents), certificates of attendance / achievement and/or notation in training records.

If the records provide sufficient evidence that the individual has received the training, then they cannot claim complete ignorance. But it should be noted that the training must be suitable and sufficient for their needs and assigned accordingly. The broad based approach would need to be at a basic level applicable to the general demographic of the organisation (i.e. the lowest common denominator) for it to be acceptable.

Therefore, as long as you can prove the training was provided you do not need a signature as additional evidence. It might seem a cast-iron means of getting people to confirm attendence, but as noted above it cannot confirm understanding as well.

I have a general problem with getting people to sign for things in any case (!!personal opinion warning!!). Firstly, it is too easy for it to be a CYA exercise, without taking the necessary steps to ensure understanding has actually been achieved through performance and competence. Secondly, it will be seen as a CYA exercise (even if the intention was initially good) and establishes the subconcious belief that the organisation does not trust the employee to take the training and use in the manner expected of them.

We do get employees to sign for receipt of PPE, which has a reference to their obligations under the Regs as well as that of the employer, but this is recognition that the equipment has been initially provided, not that training has been received. After all, how difficult is it to tell them to use it as intructed, when required, report loss or damage for corrective action and to carry / store items appropriately to prevent said loss / damage occuring? This is covered during induction anyway.

And in any case, if the workplace safety culture is inherently poor, no amount of signatures will save an organisation from prosecution or compensation claims should injury occur. Get the culture and behaviours right, and there will be no need for signatures anyway.
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#4 Posted : 04 June 2004 13:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Although I agree with Jim's comments regarding a general register and testing!!
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#5 Posted : 04 June 2004 13:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Giles Davis
Thanks for the comments so far.

Sean, please excuse my ignorance but what is a CYA exercise?

Also, your last comment regarding the H&S culture. I am really trying hard to build a positive culture within our company as I have a vested interest but am getting a bit down hearted when my efforts seem to fall on deaf ears. There has been an improvement with most staff, just the odd individual reluctant to embrace the ethos.

Thanks again for your comments

Giles
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#6 Posted : 04 June 2004 14:00:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser
Sorry Giles - I'm usually one to avoid acronyms without explanation or relevance, but it involved a well-known sweary word so I gave it a miss that time . . .

Cover Your A**e!
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#7 Posted : 04 June 2004 14:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dave K Roberts
I would suggest you get your employees to sign for every bit of training they receive no matter how trivial or insignificant it may seem. It'll pay dividends if you should have an accident injury claim be brought against you. For example, we had an incident where an individual, who was making an accident injury claim against the company, had been sent for training at a particular machine manufacturers premises. The HR Manager recorded this in that persons training record. However, the person did not sign to say that they had received the training and because of this both our insurance company and solicitor would not pursue a defence and consequently made an out of court settlement. On the other hand, another individual who was making an accident injury claim against the company had told his solicitor that he too had not received training for a particular task. In this case we had the training received documents containing his signature. When these were produce his solicitor soon repudiated this claim.

The trianing received documents I use usually include the following:


I have attended the above course and understand the......................, the content of which included the following elements:

(a) .......
(b) .......
(c) etc.

I acknowledge receipt of the Company's .........................


I also get them to acknowledge receipt of any documentation. I also have the trainer to sign the document as well.

I suspect there are many others who have similar experiences. In answer to your question about what is legal I guess it must be because our solicitors keep advising us to do it. I hope this helps with your dilemma.

Regards
Dave
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#8 Posted : 04 June 2004 14:15:00(UTC)
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Posted By huw snell
were I work all training received is logged and retained by the individual and signed off by our line manager/teamleader who also retain a copy.

I am currently dealing with an insurance claim involving manual handling, and it was our defence that the claimant had signed to show that they had recieved the training. It since transpired that the signature was in fact somebody elses!!

People may be reluctant to sign as they may cite it as a breach of their human rights, they were under duress etc..Even though no training has been in fact provided. How many times have you heard "I signed it because I was told to" "I didn't know what I was signing for" "Everybody else was signing so I went along with it"

I recently had to sign a contract regarding study leave which I refused as I was not undertaking exams, and I would do so when I was. However after much pressure from my teamleader to sign I relented only to find that the company had recinded on the deal and cut the amount of study hours!



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#9 Posted : 05 June 2004 23:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor
I get our people to sign an attendance register upon arrival and then sign at the end to sy that they have been provided with the training. 'Signing in' has been well established as a reasonable demand' by an employer. As to signing about accepting legal duties, don't worry if they refuse as they have the duties whether they sign or not.
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#10 Posted : 06 June 2004 10:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
Dear all,

There are a number of points here. The first being the legal duty is not to provide training, it is to provide suitable and sufficient information, instruction and training. What is suitable and sufficient is dependant upon the specific circumstances, but there are some general principles.

The first is that the level of risk determines the type and amount of information, instruction and training to be provided. As such the risk assessment process must drive the health and safety training process. Universal risks should be tied into induction & routine training, area wide risks into department training and localised risks into individual training. Small risks may require the provision of information; serious risks specialised training.

The second is that the training etc must be suitable for the individual.

The third is that the individual must know the risks that they are exposed to and have the knowledge and skills to take the precautionary and preventative measures that are required to safeguard their own and others health and safety and the actions that they must take to comply with the law.

Together these mean that acknowledgement of training by signature is not proof that the training was suitable or sufficient.

To prove that the training etc was suitable and sufficient there should be a training needs evaluation. This evaluation should lead produce a training package with clearly defined training outcomes.

At the end of training there should be proof that the defined outcomes have been met. This requires that there is an end of training evaluation, preferably against a written test or tests or against a defined skill test. This must be recorded. Retraining must be given where appropriate.

Finally the training must be evaluated and reviewed on the ground. There should be routine checks to prove that the person knows the risks and is taking the necessary preventative and precautionary measures to safeguard their own and others health and safety, and is also taking the measures needed to comply with the law.

Furthermore the training should be routinely reviewed and always be reviewed after accidents and/or incidents to ascertain that the training was not deficient.

Regards Adrian Watson
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#11 Posted : 06 June 2004 11:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
Let's see now.
I have received forklift training, manual handling training, training in mounting a grinding wheel, training in how to hang things from cranes and training in operating a 500 tonne hydraulic press.
The forklift traing lasted a whole day.
The manual handling training lasted 3 hours (failed it due to refusal to lift a weight to "prove" I knew how to...we got cranes for that) The grinding wheel training lasted a half day (college release). The "slinging" course lasted a half day. The press training lasted half an hour.
I never mount grinding wheels, I rarely drive a fork truck, I use cranes rather than hands and hydraulic presses are messy.
And I've never signed anything about any of them.
The company has a measured dust problem, frequently 3 times the limt of 5mg/cu metre, and has no extraction, but provides rpe.
The case where a worker tripped-over cables and tore some wrist tendons is dragging-on, with the guy having just received an interim award of £12500.00. The company safety policy states, in "tripping hazards"....."no cables, wires or hoses allowed in the workplace"
The point being: It isn't what you write that matters, it's what you write it for.
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#12 Posted : 06 June 2004 13:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Adrian Watson
John,

Exactly ... its not what you say you do, but what you do!

Regards Adrian
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