Posted By STEVE
I write this message to show my disgust at an organisation whom trade their ware throughout the country, yet offer no guarntees, after service or decency to make information available to the persons upon whom without our services could not survive.

As I write this message, their will be those who will feel that the message is sour grapes due to my failure to pass this certificate, however I tell you this , this is not the case.

My concern is that if after paying large sums of money, then not achieving something something I feel that I should have the right to be told where I have gone wrong.

This is not the case when you undertake a NEBOSH Exam.
Of course we are all disappointed when we dont achieve, but how can you possibly improve when no feedback is provided.

The excuse of we have 17,000 persons exam sheets per year to mark is not a valid excuse.

Have not NEBOSH heard of databases to draw information quickly.

There are two offers from NEBOSH,where you can appeal: for £10 you can get additional information, but after paying this all I got was my percentage mark yet again , my name ,address, and enrolment number which might I hasten to add where all on my failure form - whatis the use of this?

The second option: for £60 you can have your sheet re-marked, however ask any Training Provider and they will not reccomend this as they state that they have never known there to be any change - encouraging or what

On asking the Training Provider if they could not assist, there answer is NEBOSH will not provide them with any details, so how does the provider, provide feedback to the learner?

The answer is go on another refresher course for £500 before the exam.
Yes ok sounds a good idea, but when asked how are you going to show me what I am weak on or what I am good at the blank stares come into play.

After endless phone calls to NEBOSH and been fobbed off to different personel, with lame excuses where do you go next?

I phoned NEBOSH up again stating that surely under the Data Protection Act(my personel information)I had a right to see a least a photostat of my marked exam sheet, this would at least show me where I was going wrong - but again the excuses are unbelievable- do you realise how much effort it would take to send this information out, wait a minute most Training Providers sell there selves with quotes like 90-100% pass rates surely not that many fail.

As a freelance Trainer and Trainer for my current Company I have concerns that there is something terribly wrong here.

As a Trainer I know how important it is to provide and recieve feedback, my Training Certs costantly reference to this, I was also taught that all individuals must be treated differently(equal oppertunities, discrimination)yet NEBOSH again expect that all Individuls can write constantly for three hours(Theory)irrespective of educational background.

If a question is classed as a 40 mark question my provider states that NEBOSH would expect at least four pages, and for a 8 point question at least one page this again equates to 3 questions of 40 marks=12sheets +12questions of 8marks=12sheets, therefore 24 sheets of written paper in 3 hrs,on top of this you can be penalised if writing is not of a good standard.

Whilst being told to read the questions a couple of times to understand them this equates to time lost.

Why is are only three hours given, what is the reason of putting learners under this pressure, when surely as advisors we need to ensure that info is correct before producing.

Surely NEBOSH must see on exam papers that the writing becomes poor as the time goes by, this means not enough time, not answering in the logical sequence you start of at, rushing, under pressure etc.

I know that out of fifthteen of the persons taking the current course they have all stated the same concerns, this has not changed since I achieved my NEBOSH Cert six years ago.

Why on the Construction Cert if you have passed the practical exams with flying colours should you have to resit this part again if failing the Theory side?
Why are not Computers offered for those who cannot put pen to paper quickly or greatly?

Why are NEBOSH so reluctant to provide feedback? why are not Training Providers demanding a photostat of exam papers as a service to learners who fail?
Even in adriving test that has so many failures a written as well as a discussion is provided.

NEBOSHs excuses are pathetic,unjust and do not warrant the monies spent on their courses until this is rectified.

By the way the £500 that the Training Provider wanted from me to provide 3days of additional learning(that they did not know, which areas I needed to improve)and a re-exam fee was slashed after speaking to the director of how his trainer was going to assist me further when he did not know where I had gone wrong,provision of a mock exam, a days feedback questioning session,and re-exam for the price of £65.

For this I am thankful to the Training Provider, who understands the dilema but states that they can not do anything about the methods of NEBOSH Exams.

Whilst this is a poor answer, at least they have tryed to soften the blow.

To those who are about to go on a NEBOSH Course this message should be taken into account, and for those who have to resit it could be worth mentioning this to your Training Provider when refresher coures are offered for ex amount of money.

Lets be honest you can do the same revising at home if they cannot tell you where you have gone wrong.

Whilst I will persue this course until achieved, I for one will never invest in another course until their attitude changes

Steve

Posted By Peter J Harvey
I would agree with Nick, although I know that we have both gone through the same NEBOSH Exam process with the same training provider.

The marking processes are very well set out and the time scale and exam environment is exactly the same as that used by many other professional qualification award bodies.

If you know what you wrote in the exam, your training provider should be able to offer you constructive feedback on why you did not pass.

Posted By Kate Graham
Nebosh are only following common practice among academic institutions here. In all the many exams I have sat over the years and recently with different institutions, it has never been possible to get the marked script back. The reason it would be impractical to offer this isn't so much the time to post them off - it is dealing with the detailed arguments examinees would then bring about how they should have had another mark here and another one there - I can truly see why they don't want to go down that road.


Having just sat Dip 1, I believe I know which questions I answered poorly and which ones well and if I have to resit that is what my revision will be based on.

Posted By Stephen Vickers
As the Chief Executive of NEBOSH, I feel it incumbent to help Steve out with regard to his concerns about the rights and duties of exam boards (awarding bodies).

I am sorry that he considers that the post-exam feedback he received is insufficient. NEBOSH operates solely on its income from examination fees, etc. If we were to ask our examiners to write a detailed report on the work of every candidate as a matter of course we should have to pay them a great deal more, and the exam fees would be very much higher.

Steve is disappointed at the amount of feedback we provide to candidates who enquire about their results. Our policies with regard to post-exam services are in line with those of most awarding bodies, we are regulated by the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority and obey its rules. When Steve took his schools exams, had he enquired about any results he would have received a brief review of his script, nor a detailed one. We do however have this policy constantly under review, and amend it from time to time to keep in line with best practice.

I think that Steve has been misinformed if he has been told that data protection legislation requires us to return exam scripts to candidates. DP laws relate to information kept on computers, etc. There was a QCA experiment in 1999 which found that few candidates wanted their scripts back; as a then QCA employee I worked on this project.

I wholly concur with Steve's views on two points, and we are taking action on these. Firstly, he is right that the old syllabus for the Construction Certificate required anyone failing a single paper to retake then all. I'm glad to say that the new syllabus allows a candidate to bank papers in which (s)he has been successful and to retake only the others. Secondly, in response to the Disability Discrimination Act we are happy to respond positively to requests from providers for the use of spellcheckers etc, where the candidate has some disability to which a spellchecker would constitute a "reasonable adjustment"; this approach is in accord with QCA rules.

Some of the subsequent postings have raised our accreditation policy. We take concerns raised about providers very seriously, and investigation usually involves a visit and may in extreme cases result in loss of accreditation. It may not always be obvious to candidates what we are doing, because we owe the provider an element of confidentiality.

Stephen

Posted By Geof
Stephen

I don't agree with a number of the opinions put forward by Steve or his method of complaint.

However I would like to take further your statement:

'It may not always be obvious to candidates what we are doing, because we owe the provider an element of confidentiality.'

I write as an experienced H&S Practitioner and NEBOSH examiner to say I see different standards on examination papers which reflect directly on the different training suppliers.

Question 1. Once the fact is recognised that different standards exist why is it not reasonable to provide this information to people wishing to avail themselves of training - to allow them to make an informed judgement?

Question 2. If trading is judged to be sub-standard (or whatever name you want to put on it) then why does NEBOSH owe a duty of confidentiality?

Geoff Burt

Posted By Peter Lee
Kate, do you think that persons who don't have the NEBOSH Diploma or non examined under strict timescales cannot be taken seriously.

Whats your view on the NVQ which is non examined for example ?

Posted By Kate Graham
For the record, Peter, I don't think a non-examined qualification such as an NVQ is any less respectable than an examined one and in fact it was one of the options I had in mind when I said we had a choice whether to agree to Nebosh terms and conditions.


Some people perform well in exams, others don't even though they may have the same level of knowledge. But if you set out to get a qualification that is assessed by exam then you have to be prepared to sit an exam under normal exam conditions (disabilities excepted of course). If it's not assessed by exam then it has to be assessed in some different but also rigorous way.

Posted By Nick Egan
Steve
Having gone through similar experiences under the old NEBOSH exam regime, I understand your plight and would agree with other commentators comments about the sometimes poor quality of teaching and support.

But these are necessarily tough tests of both knowledge and problem solving skills. What is the real pity, is that it is not generally recognised in the wider world what a high level of achievement there is in gaining a DipOSH. If it was, perhaps we would be enjoying the rewards!
Nick

Posted By David J.
Like others I would express sympathy with your failed exam. Being one of those lucky people with a knack for passing exams I have never had to face the problem of failure. at school college, university or indeed NEBOSH exams. However it has been my experience on both the certificate and diploma course, taught by a private provider and a well respected university respectfully, that the standard and quality of tuition was to say the least poor. Thus in effect I and my fellow students felt to a man and woman that it was really down to us to buckle down and study the material, books etc. and pass the various module exams. Points: the institution really needs to get out there and hammer poor tuition from which ever source for a variety of reasons not least because of the high cost of safety training relative to any other similar level qualifications. With the basic certificate, in my view being excessively priced, the training companies little tricks of extra tuition etc add considerably to this cost as illustrated in the thread. But for me, sorry guys and girls, it really is down to you to buckle down study and prepare for the exams. I always have. hence my good exam knack!!!!!





Like others i would express sympathy with your failed exam. Being one of thos lucky people with a knack for passing exams i have never had to face the problem of failure. at school colege, university or indeed NEBOSH exams. However it has been my experience on both the certificate and diploma certificate, taught by a privateprovider and a well respected university respectufully, that the standard and quality of tuition was to say the least poor. Thus in effect I an my fellow students felt to a man and woman that it was really down to us to buckle down and study the material, books etc. and pass the various module exams. Points: the institution really need to get out there and hammer poor tuition from which ever source for a variety of reasons not least because of the high cost of safety training relative to any other similar level qualifications. With the basic certificate in my view being excessively priced, the training companies littkle tricks of extra tuition etc add considerably to this as exambled in the thread. But for me, sorry guys and girls, it really is down to your self to buckle down study and prepare for the exams. I always have..hence my good exam technique!!!!!

Posted By Jimmy
David,

Really surprised that you managed to finish exams, never mind passing them, when you appear to write the same thing twice...

Posted By Linda Crossland-Clarke
Hi

On the positive side, any assignments you have undertaken will contribute towards "knowledge evidence" for an NVQ if you did opt to go that way.

Linda

Posted By David J.
Hi, ooops, must have coppied 2 times..anyway said i was good at exams..not with PC's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

Posted By Pollington
Steve

I think you are an ideal candidate for using a laptop/computer when resitting your exam - you have written so much - you can if you have a valid reason, or if you are dyslexic someone can write for you.

By the way whoever told you to write x amount of pages depending on the marks of the question is rubbish.

Get it down to concise bullet points, be direct go straight to the point. Highlight key words. That is what will get you through the exam.

Good luck for next time, believe me once you have got the exam technique you will sail through NEBOSH papers.

Posted By STEVE
First of all can I thank everyone who has contributed to this discussion, whilst writing the first post I was not sure that this was the route to get rid of my frustration, yet after reading comments it has helped me realise that there are issues to be adressed within the NEBOSH Qualifications.

Steve Vickers states that NEBOSH operates solely on the income from exam fees etc. and it would mean putting additional costs on these fees in order to ask an examiner to write a detailed report, then why not offer this service and do away with the pretend service of appeal.
If the oppertunity was given then I am sure most of us who fail these Certs would be happy to contribute a fee towards knowing where we had gone wrong.

I am sure that those who pass these Certs would not want this service so the numbers would be greatly reduced as I previously mentioned most Training Providers are quoting 90-100% pass marks.

So now that I have Steves attention maybe he can answer a few of the questions that I tried to get information on from of NEBOSH

1. Who dictates the time period that should be alloted to candidates for answering the THEORY related exam? and what is the purpose of this additional pressure if we are not stereotyping all candidates ?
2.If NEBOSH cannot find the time to provide feedback reports to persons whom have failed due to time /cost restraints cannot a photostat of the candidates exam sheets be sent to the Training Provider in order that they can offer some support and not feel embarrased by not being able to give answers
3. I quoted x amount of written pages for some exam questions, yet some of NEBOSHs Examiners on this site state that that is not the case, which is correct? because either the Examiners are getting it wrong or the Training Providers are, so again no wonder the candidate struggles.
4. Why are NEBOSH so hung up on the NEBOSH SPEAK - DEFINE, EXPLAIN, DESCRIBE, STATE etc the amount of persons who cannot get to grip with this is unbelievable
5.How long are failed candidates exam sheets stored for, and what is the purpose of storing if they are not going to be utilised.
6. If Training Providers are to be accredited by NEBOSH as part of this accreditation are the Training Providers asked to provide evidence of their Trainers Teaching Qualifications? as we all know many Training Providers offer training services yet the person teaching has no teaching experience or teaching qualification and are reliant solely of their specialist knowledge, is this why some Providers are better than others.

I know persons are going to say why dont I just let it go, but if I do the next generation of NEBOSH Candidates will ask the same questions, so maybe know we have Steve Vickers attention maybe he will try and utilise this information at his next Review Meeting.
By the way Steve it would be interesting to know the answers to Geoff Burts questions.

Again thank you for all responses, positive and negative and as my wife always says" Its good to talk"

Posted By Robert S Woods
The moral is if possible go to a FE college rather than a commercial training provider. They have to meet FENTO and similar standards, for which they are regularly inspected. To meet these standards they have to have a policy of providing monitoring and adequate feedback of a student’s progress. Part of the standards measures pass rate and student retention, which means that the college has a vested interest in keeping student on board and achieving a high pass rate. Plus the fees tend to be a lot cheaper.

My understanding is that under the data protection act for £15 you can request copies of any information that a company has regarding you including CCTV footage. I don’t think you can sign away these rights.

Posted By Raymond Rapp
Steve

AlthoughI never taken a NEBOSH exam (NVQ 3 and MSc) I find the whole process absurd. I may be a sceptic but I have always been wary of those bodies who are not accountable to anyone. Clearly with a number of other routes available NEBOSH need to get their act together, otherwisw people wil be voting with their feet.

The NEBOSH exams are very costly, no suggesting that they are not value for money, but nevertheless not to provide any feedback is in my opinion unacceptable. As one person has already suggested, marking of papers should automatically incorporate some feedback whether you pass or fail.

Regards

Ray

Posted By Nick Higginson
Raymond

Where have you got the notion that NEBOSH are not accountable to anyone?

As Stephen pointed out, NEBOSH are regulated by the QCA and obey their rules to maintain accreditation.

I have never taken an NVQ, so taking my lack of knowledge on the subject into account, would not make sweeping statements about their quality (or lack of). Perhaps you should do the same?

Nick

Posted By Geof
I didn't expect him to respond Steve. A statement has been made and that's it folks -take it or leave it.