Posted By John Webster I do NOT wish to re-re-re-open the smoking debate, and my own views on smoking bans etc. are well documented in previous threads. However, despite recommendations for a balanced approach, our (NHS) Board have called for a complete prohibition (ie even the smoking room will be withdrawn) from next March. The ban will apply to staff, visitors and patients alike. The proposed Policy would allow staff to withdraw smoking materials from patients who insist on ignoring the policy by lighting up on the premises. There are those who believe that to do this would be in breach of Human Rights legislation (even if they got them back to go outside for a fag), though others would say that apart from withdrawing medical treatment and ejecting offenders from the premises (which, through the right process, IS legal but not exactly desirable), what other sanctions can be placed on a patient persistently smoking in a ward or toilet? As an added complication, some of these are elderly patients in long-term care and are not capable of leaving the premises unaided for a smoke. Legal arguments on the Human Rights issues please. The only one I have so far is that if the ban and confiscation are necessary in order for us to fulfil our obligations under HSWA, then as pre-existing primary H&S legislation it takes precedence over the Human Rights Act. Thanks John

Posted By Robert Paterson Interesting one this. What about Employers providing a safe place of work (HASWA 1974 SECTION 2(2)(e)). Is there not a legal argument here. Listening to debate on T.V. last night about smoking in public places. I would have thought that the above quoted law would be enough for employers to implement smoking ban in public places, or maybe I am wrong. I am not a smoker and do not have predudical views on it. Regards Robert Paterson

Posted By james mackie John, An employer has a duty to protect all employees from the potentially dangerous effects of smoking. Therefore if you have a smoking room that has to be cleaned, can you protect the cleaner (and other staff) from the effects of cigarette smoke? My answer would be no therefore smokers will have to smoke outside. A divided room is not suitable, (it is like having a no p'ing area in a swimming pool)because everyone will get some eventually. This includes patients, staff, visitors etc. You can then take reasonable measures to enforce this which after a verbal warning would be to remove smoking materials from patients. Obviously give them their cancer sticks back when they are discharged.

Posted By Geof Question 1 - are patients or staff or visitors committing a crime if they smoke? Question 2 - if full air conditioning to a smoking room was installed would this make any difference to the answers already given. I suggest the answers are no and no, and confirms a bias, to me at least, against a section of society who have not committed an offence of any sort.

Posted By Paul Adams Just to look at the other side of the coin..........if you forcibly remove my property against my will whilst I am in your care, would it be reasonable for me to treat it as an act of theft? A very slippery slope, I think. Paul

Posted By james mackie geof, an employee may be committing a crime if they smoke at work under HSWA section 7 if they are not cooperating with their employer.

Posted By Geof James - in the general context of this question it is not illegal to smoke in the UK.