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#1 Posted : 23 July 2004 08:33:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Clark I was speaking to a colleague yesterday and they mentioned about screen refresh rates of above 60Hz. Does anyone know about this and do they know what the standard is or where I can find out about the 'problem. Apparently all DSE equipment must be above a certain rate ( 55 - 90Hz?). Can anyone help or point me in the right direction regards Tony
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#2 Posted : 23 July 2004 08:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser I'm not an expert on this Tony but my understanding is that the refresh rates contribute to flicker and can be percieved consciously and sub-consciously, exacerbating general eye and body fatigue. Higher refresh rates do not have this debilitating effect. L26, the HSE guide, may have more on this but the free booklet "Working with VDUs" doesn't mention it, so I would think this is no longer a problem for modern machines - might still be a problem for older installed screens though.
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#3 Posted : 23 July 2004 10:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Pearson It's a common cause of people feeling "eyestrain", headaches etc. In Windows, go into Control Panel and choose Display. Click on the Settings tab, and you will see a button marked Advanced. Click this, which brings up another window. Click on the Monitor tab and you will see a drop-down menu marked refresh Frequency. Make sure the "Hide modes this monitor cannot display" option is ticked, and choose the highest value available. It's easy to see why people don't often stumble across this option! If you have a properly managed work network, try to get them to configure all monitors to be set to 85Hz or higher.
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#4 Posted : 23 July 2004 11:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Sean is on the right lines. In effect, what you see on the screen is renewed many times per second (Hz). It is possible to consciously or subliminally detect a slight flicker of the screen which can lead to headaches or a feeling of tension, nausea etc., in a similar way that some people are affected by working under fluorescent lights. The lighting can also exacerbate screen flicker. The higher the refresh rate, the less likely it is to have this effect. I recommend a refresh rate >60Hz. The drawback is that the colour definition may be reduced - for example my screen is currently working at a refresh rate of 85Hz but with 16bit High Colour. If I wanted to display 32bit True Colour, I would have to accept a lower refresh rate. The settings can be checked and adjusted on Windows computers (probably most of us) in "Start", "Settings", "Control Panel", "Display" and then selecting the "settings" tab. Depending on version, the refresh rate may be displayed, or you may have to click the "advanced settings" key to find it. Unfortunately, this seems to be an area that often gets overlooked in DSE assessments. Note that if your monitor has a seperate power supply or switch, always ensure that the monitor is on before the computer is booted up or it can revert to some default monitor settings. Hope some of you find this of use. John
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#5 Posted : 23 July 2004 11:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Sorry Neil I went for coffee in the middle of writing my posting, so didn't notice you had already given much the same reply John
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#6 Posted : 23 July 2004 12:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Sean Fraser Good point about the DSE assessment questionnaire - I am away to check ours right now!! We are fortunate in having an IT department so I just checked my monitor settings and am sitting on the fastest refresh rate already.
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#7 Posted : 23 July 2004 17:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By David Thomas I have found (in a large office environment) that looking at a monitor from the other side of the room you can actually see it refreshing - the better you can see this the lower the refresh rate. It becomes an eye opener when going up to that person to see they have a packet of asprins on their desk awaiting the next headache! Dave
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#8 Posted : 23 July 2004 22:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tony Clark Thanx for the help. Do you know if there is a level that must be achieved. Are these just recommendations or is there a legal minimum refresh rate etc. regards Tony
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#9 Posted : 26 July 2004 07:46:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alec Wood As far as I know it is just guidance. Changing the refresh rate is very easy to do so implementing a DSE policy requiring refresh rates of say 65Hz or higher should not cause anyone any problems. It should be noted that all this stuff about refresh rates only applies to CRT type (big heavy glass tube, like a TV) monitors. More modern TFT LCD units (the thin flat ones) do not refresh the display in the same way. Changing the refresh rate on computers using LCD monitors will not actually change the refresh rates on the monitor at all. Alec Wood Samsung Electronics
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#10 Posted : 26 July 2004 13:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Laurie I think most televisions, once again the big bulky ones, not the new, expensive, thin ones, have a refresh rate of 50 Hz, tho' of course you don't sit as close as with a VDU. Some manufacturers make "100 Hz" TVs, and it is the refresh rate that they are referring to, but Alec may know different! Laurie
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#11 Posted : 26 July 2004 14:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alec Wood You are quite correct Laurie, in both cases. TV is generally a 50Hz refresh acting on half the picture, every second line, at a time. The way we use televeision is completely different to the way we use DSE though. Quite apart from sitting much closer, there is little variation in brightness/contrast of the image, we tend to be more intently focussed, look away less often, shift body position less often etc etc. We always recommended our customers to go for a refresh rate of 70Hz or above, and most of our CRT monitor drivers default to this rate on installation. By the way, the advice regarding the need for a seperate power switch for the monitor given above is incorrect. The refresh rate is set by the graphics card within the computer, when you change settings this is stored by the PC, not the monitor unit itself. The monitor contains a set of data called DDC containing the capabilities of the monitor unit. This is what determines the choices of refresh rates offered to the user. Alec Wood Samsung Electronics
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#12 Posted : 26 July 2004 16:20:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Alec I'm sure you are normally right, but this computer had a monitor transplant last year. Now if I boot up without having first switched on the monitor, it reverts to some other settings. It took me quite a while to work out why on some days the flicker was annoying me and on others not. So if it can happen to me, it can probably happen to others. I have experienced other peripherals not performing correctly if not already powered up before "Windows" loads. I certainly wasn't advocating separate power switches!
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#13 Posted : 26 July 2004 21:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By jon hammond Hopefully Alec can answer this 1. I have recently upgraded and got a TFT, my old PC's manual (which is now the kids )suggests that if you select too higher setting damage may occur to the display and hardware. Is this them covering themselves or is it a possibility. If I go around recommending every body raises their refresh rate but damage is possible I know what will happen, I look forward to your response Jon
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#14 Posted : 27 July 2004 16:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Alec Wood Jon, the problem you are having would indicate that the incorrect driver is being used in windows, or that the units DDC data has become corrupted, or the driver is just poorly written and does not support your monitor unit correctly as many are. When you switch the monitor on it flags the PC to read the DDC information. Hence, in your case, the unit has been made to operate outside the paramters specified by the (possibly corrupt) DDC data, or possibly poor driver, and as long as you do not switch it off, or ensure you do switch it on before the PC, then the DDC data will not get read and Windows will not implement the setting specified by the DDC data. I bet that's as clear as mud! John, in theory it is possible. In practise, modern CRT monitors (post 1998) have almost always used a micr-controller at their heart with a phase locked loop to control the sync signals used to drive the horizontal and vertical scans. If you set a mode unsupported by the unit, rather than damagiung itself by exceeding its capabilities, it will just go into low power mode (DPMS) and the power light will suaull flash amber/green at you. If you are using Windows, and the correct driver, the display properties will only offer you rates supported by the unit, if the driver has been written correctly (see above). TFT units work differently, you will not damage one by sending it data at too high a rate, but then, since they do not refresh in the same manner as CRT units, there is nothing to be gained from using a higher refresh rate in such units anyway. Flicker on those is from flourescent lamps inside, but they run at 2500-4000Hz so should not give rise to any problems. Alec Wood Samsung Electronics - An ex monitor manufacturing engineer in case no-one had guessed :-)
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