Posted By Zoe Barnett In the light of all the recent debates about hijacking, spelling, Bob the Builder etc etc isn't there scope for a new forum? We could have the existing one for specific Q&A type threads where it was the done thing to Just Answer the Question, and a new one wherein we could have a laugh, bitch, mis-spell and take the mickey out of each other to our hearts' content. Bet I know which would be the most popular...

Posted By Ed Carter Right! I've read the thread... and the responses. Thats four names gone into my black book!! Next step a dawn visit, (if I can get them up)from my HSS (Health and safety Security) Force, you cant mistake them they are kitted out in Hard Hats, safety boots, Hi-viz jackets, heavy duty gloves, safety specs and RPE I won't have this sort of subversion on such a serious site. As for the instigator, yes Zoe Barnett I'm looking at you!! well the punishment must fit the crime, while I think about that, you can start with writing out HASWA 1974 a hundred times, so there! Indignant Lancashire (or, if you prefer it) Ed

Posted By Richard Spencer Another great Idea About time we took in the environment paradigm. We are all stuck down the brown end of the environmental scale and it’s about time we got a bit greener. After all without the environment nothing would have meaning, would it? Richard

Posted By Zoe Barnett I started this thread so I'm allowed to be contentious right back AND wander off topic with total impunity! What happens to the environment affects people. Full stop. I refer you to the effects of the hole in the ozone layer (increase in skin cancers); contamination of fish with toxic waste (yum yum, tuna sandwich anyone?); and the adverse health effects suffered by exposure to toxic mould in shoddily-built houses(as demonstrated by the magnificent Erin Brockovich). That's just three I can think of whilst pretending to be working. I'm sure that there are many many better examples. So-called "tree-huggers" are in fact the enlightened people who have realised that we have our own long-term interests to think about when we consider environmental issues. It is an arrogant assumption that human beings are somehow above the natural world and its processes. Human beings are animals. Sure, this means ones with big brains, right on up there at the top of the food chain, and with the astonishing capacity to destroy themselves, but animals nevertheless. It's about time we realised that we are part of the global ecosystem, not exempt from it, and we therefore owe it to ourselves to damn well look after it.

Posted By Jason Gould "Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed people can change the world; indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead (1901-1978) Jason 1 point so far Richard 0 But ready for a come back lol Big smile Big smile

Posted By Zoe Barnett Richard, you miss the point. Environment can affect health and safety. No reasonable person could argue against that. Therefore there is perfectly legitimate scope for its inclusion on this forum. You might also recognise that it is rather discourteous to imply that anyone with an interest in environmental matters is some kind of archaic idiot unable to see the wider picture or understand the modern world. (For a start I possess neither a bicycle nor a beard.)

Posted By Richard Spencer Zoe, I think I said: “Another great Idea About time we took in the environment paradigm. We are all stuck down the brown end of the environmental scale and it’s about time we got a bit greener. After all without the environment nothing would have meaning, would it? Richard” Where did I earn your ire for tirade, in this instance? You have me at a disadvantage!! I am an unashamed, creature of mother earth and a proclaimed ‘tree hugger’. Richard - Master of Environmental Management

Posted By Zoe Barnett Richard, I apologise profusely. I meant to address my remarks to Rob. I am glad to meet (albeit in cyberspace) a fellow tree-hugger. Rob - I'm not sure how you make the leap from environmental concern to a desire to eliminate technological development? Anyway, this all supports my campaign for a new forum in which we can have this kind of discussion. After all, it started off as a suggestion for an amendment to a website and has since covered elephants, renamed charities, the Amish and the symbiosis between health, safety and environment, with a bit of toxic tuna chucked in for good measure. Surely this is proof that there is scope for such a "conversation" area on the site? Gentlemen, I rest my case.

Posted By KEVIN O'KANE Thank you Zoe.......for starting this thread ,this site is in danger of becoming funnier than "wife swap" who said safety can't be fun...."IOSH" value for money I say, bring it on. Kevin.... Human/animal??? What about animal testing? I think its a terrible idea ; they always seem to clam up and get nervous and give the wrong answers KEEP THE FAITH!!!!

Posted By Alec Wood I for one think the idea of an environmental forum is a very good idea. Its lumped in with OSH in most job adverts these days so I guess we'll all have to learn something about it sooner or later. I notice the title of this forum is "OSH Chat" - surely chat encompasses mickey taking, displays of poor spelling, and otherwise interacting with our peers at whatever level of reverance is fitting at the time. Alec Wood Samsung Electronics

Posted By Hilary Charlton I do health and safety and environmental - most of us have to these days, especially in smaller organisations and how can these things be totally split anyway - take Section 5 HSWA - doesn't allow you to vent noxious or offensive substances into the atmosphere - well, neither does the Clean Air Act or the Environmental Protection Act - I don't see how these can be cleanly divided. On a very positive note - I posted a thread asking for an environmental audit programme to complement my pre-existing health and safety one and I got a wealth of information and one complete audit programme that could have been written as part of my original h&s programme. I am very grateful to those people who gave me help on this thread and do not believe that we actually need another forum for environmental - just a bit of understanding from pure H&S people that some of us have to cover more than one discipline. Thanks Hilary

Posted By Karen Todd Hello all, I do think that profiles and perhaps photos are a good idea. RRC have them for their students and they also give good profiles of their tutors with photos of some of them. It's good to know who you're dealing with and who is most likely to be able to help you, especially with specialist areas. I only know one forum user in real life and we did our NEBOSH Dip 1 together and bumped into each other on the chat forum. Maybe what we all need is a great big night out. I wonder what the hazards of us all meeting up might be. Would we need some mediators; or what PPE might be required? I think I might be OK, I don't think I've offended too many so perhaps no need for a flak jacket and helmet for me. All I'll need is a set of stabilisers to help keep me upright after a few drinkies! Karen

Posted By Jack Rob I think you're straying into a Pots & Kettles area! You reduce environmental issues to: ‘The great unwashed with their bicycles with wooden baskets on the front, beards and "aren't we so much holier than thou" attitudes can campaign wherever they want to in context but don't do it here!’ Then criticise someone else with: ‘Knowing about the environmental issues doesn't mean that you've got a garden and eat free range lentils you know!’ Hiliary, I'm a bit rusty on this but have any premises been prescribed under Section 5?

Posted By John Allen Yes, Section 5 was in fact repealed by the Environment Protection Act 1990. The section was unenforceable anyway due to a spelling error which was never corrected. Look at the original published act to find out what it was. The old Alkali and Clean Air Inspectorate were never happy at being lumped in with the HSE and HSW Act and couldn't get out from either quick enough.

Posted By Ken Taylor Let's keep it all on here. Some of us serious health and safety people need to think about the environment and have a bit of a laugh at times.

Posted By Merv Newman I think Zoe's point on an environmental forum has been answered - this present forum will do, but there are probably others aleady in existance. Can anyone provide an adress ? Zoe, when I read one of your replies I thought of telling you to stay in after school. But you probably do that quite often don't you ? Rob, was the project we did together health, safety or environment ? Sometimes I have a hard time drawing the line. I did smile when I saw someone advising you to get out more. How many foreign travel days have you clocked up this year ? Fats - good to see you're still in the game. Don't be so shy in future. Should we have some fun when we are "doing" safety ? Damn right we should. Having accidents is serious. Not having accidents is a pleasure. In a recent presentation I characterised the client's existing OHS system as "Duty and responsibility". I then suggested that we aim to add two other words "Pride and pleasure" We are working on it. Honestly I believe that these four words should characterise our profession :"Helping people to work safely is our duty and our responsibility. We are proud of what we do and it gives us great pleasure to do it" With any luck I've just hijacked this thread. Merv Newman

Posted By Zoe Barnett I wasn't really suggesting a chatroom, more of an informal message board type thing. That way we can keep the strictly factual how-many-first-aiders-do-I-need type of thing separate from the more interesting conversations. This stops those who are looking for a specific answer from having to trawl through piles of irrelevance, and allows those who are up for a debate the space and freedom to do so. The sort of approach I'm advocating would be similar to the one on the Archers website (www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/archers). People can then post replies and opinions relating to a particular thread, such as should Emma elope with Dangerous Ed Grundy, or marry his dull brother William? (Personally I say run, Emma, run like the wind).

Posted By Richard Spencer Mike You have a point, but as you rightly point out you don’t have the time to spend pontificating about the discourse that takes place, well, may I respectfully suggest, that you take time out to apply your mind to the general debates of your professional colleagues. I make the point that, “All work and no play, makes jack a dull boy” The very point of being a contributor is not to count the number of times you have contributed, but to take part in a debate. I agree, this is a learning experience for some whilst allowing the more proficient to engage in intellectual repartee, much the same as our legal colleagues. Being able to debate has set us as the dominant species on earth. Not to debate makes us socially poorer. In my contributions I have frequently been attacked for my positions and insulted in some cases, but that has not and will not stop me from providing my views in this place for debate. Some of the ‘old school’ took my commentary negatively and derided me mercilessly. That’s OK I accept that, but there has been a learning experience for them and me. Debate is a quintessential component of an organisation such as IOSH. The changes in the standards of commentary have been encouraging. Moreover, I have noted people are becoming a more professional in there commentary, in spite of grammar and spelling irregularities. As Zoe pointed out, the more mundane OHS issues where people are seeking help can be listed on a separate page and allow general debates to be maintained. In some instances people make remarks they think are completely inoffensive, but are surprised to learn by a response that they were in fact offensive in the manner of writing. In my general opinion, there are those that still lack the art of debate whilst others immediate take steps to moderate the commentary on reading the response, and there are those who are positively erudite. As a group we need to be mindful of what one thinks, says, and writes and therefore I believe, a good reason for the establishment of a page such as this. The point to be mindful of is that socially, ethically, morally and intellectually IOSH members comprise a broad mix and it is the opportunity to engage each other. The need to diminish egregious one liner’s in favour of a humorous or objective response is long overdue and starting to become more evident. A demonstration of this can be found on the closed pages in responses proved by Hazel an excellence example of the later. So lighten up, take time out, brush the intellectual cobwebs away, and contribute. Richard