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Posted By Robert Ball
Dear All
Old chestnut I am afraid but I was wondering if there is any new information.
We occupy 3 floors of an 18-storey building and have 2 members of staff who are in wheelchairs although they do have some limited mobility. Previously we have operated a “refuge” system, which has worked well. The local fire service has now said that this is unacceptable to leave them alone in the refuge and require us to nominate persons to stay with them (we did offer individual mobile phones for contact purposes). I fail to see how this is a sensible practice. I have looked at evac chairs and they remain a possibility, although I an issue with the delay of evacuation of other users and of course the manual handling/user confidence issues. Equally their mobility is such that they could in extreme cases walk down using the stairs, although this would take considerable time and require some assistance and again possible delay the evacuation of others. We have both our own and other company employees on 5 floors above, which is a lot of people to pass. As this is a modern shared multi occupancy building in prime location, I feel that some responsibility should be with the landlord to provide a fire evacuation lift. Interestingly the central areas on each floor are communal and are the responsibility of the landlord, which is also the area where the lifts and refuge areas are. These 2 people are vital and important members of our staff and we are not in any way looking at termination of employment. We need a solution that is both practicable, sensible and that does not endanger the 2 people or their work colleagues. Any ideas on the best way forward would be appreciated.
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Posted By John Webster
Robert
Refuges are intended as a safe holding point to allow ordered evacuation, and avoid the sort of staircase pile-up which you can rightly forsee. They allow the less mobile to go last, if it is necessary for them to go at all.
They are not a places to put non-ambulent people to await rescue by the fire brigade.
The employer is responsible for ensuring that all staff and visitors can access a place of safety in the event of fire or other emergency. It is not always necessary for this place to be outside in the street (otherwise we would have to move sick hospital patients outside on a wet winter's day).
Modern buildings are compartmentalised with respect to fire, with doors of 30 or 60 minutes resistance to passage of smoke and flames. So it should only be necessary to move someone from a safe area if the integrity of the adjacent compartment, or one adjacent to the escape route, has in some way been compromised.
In which case, who is going to help your disabled employees if they have been left alone?
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Posted By Merv Newman
Can you move their place of work to the ground floor - even if it means imporoving their means of communication with colleagues on second and third floors ?
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Posted By Ken Taylor
Could you find out if an existing lift can be converted to an evacuation lift and, if so, offer to meet the cost to the landlord?
If the individuals concerned could get themselves down the stairs (even if rather slowly) this might be OK in fire risk assesment terms if you have sufficient fire separation and compartmentation supported by automatic fire detection to gain sufficient time for them to reach a place of safety. An informed and competent judgement may be needed here. Many wheelchair users have expressed a preference for self-evacuation rather than transfer to an evacuation chair - which requires the presence of trained and able assistance at all times.
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Posted By Robert Ball
Many thanks for your responses.
We are unable to relocate to the ground floor as it is a shared occupancy building and the ground floor is the reception area and building services.
Having previously trialled an evac chair with one of the staff memebers who has cerebal palsey, he was unhappy with the feeling of insecurity in the chair and the "carriers" found it difficult due to his unpredicable movements.
I am looking to see if I can divert the Fire Officer into looking at shared provision within the building as a landlord responsibility. There are 9 different companies that have offices withinn this tower block. It would not seem particularly unreasonable to convert one lift into an evacuation lift for use by all companies and visitors.
I take the point about emplyer responsibilty, but in rality we are experiencing real difficulty in getting volunteers to stay with these people in the refuge points, this is compounded in that we operate a shift system. I would appereciate any thoughts on how we can improve our volunteer rate, has anybody had any particular sucess in this?.
rgds
Robert
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Posted By shaun mckeever
You say the building is relatively modern. Does the building have a firefighting lift? If so, it is perfectly acceptable to use a firefighting lift to assist with the evacuation of disabled persons. The fire brigade will commandeer the lift when they arrive and will complete the evacuation of disabled persons. However, as you know, your procedure must not rely on the attendance of the fire brigade. Horizontal evacuation may also be acceptable. Hospitals adopt a horizontal evacuation procedure.
I can understand that staff may be reluctant to volunteer but I don't believe that in a real situation nobody would be prepared to assist.
I don't know what type of activities you perform in your workplace but I get the impression that you are a low risk office type building. If the Landlords and other tenants are managing their fire safety correctly i.e. not wedging open fire doors leading onto the staircase, then it is unlikely that you will have rapid fire spread throughout the building. This could form part of your assessment of the risk. You may then be able to determine the most likely places that you may be able to evacuate disabled staff to for your horizontal evacuation plan. You should still have a plan to evacuate out of the building should the fire spread. Don't forget to complete a PEEP (personal emergency evacuation plan) for each of the disabled staff.
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Posted By Ken Taylor
You could also try emphasising to prospective volunteers that they are not required to stay with the disabled person but to assist them to evacuate from the refuge to a designated place of safety as soon as it is safe to use the escape route.
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Posted By Maggie Atterbury
Robert
We have a disabled member of staff who works on the second floor. Her evacuation procedure is to wait until the floor is clear then move with the volunteer members of her team (they all volunteered) to the protected corridor. When the exit stairs are clear, they assist her to move into the Evac-chair. She does this by pulling herself into an upright position as well as she can, on parallel bars that we have fitted for her on the landing. The volunteers then manouvre the chair behind her so that with assistance, she can lower herself in to it and so that there is no manual handling involved. They then take her down the stairs. This works very well as we practice several times a year and she is now confident that she will be safely evacuated
Maggie Atterbury
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Posted By George Wedgwood
I agree with Maggie - that is basically the system we used at a former employer's HQ with 1000 staff and three floors. Lifts are not a suitable option as most will not trust them anyway, even if they are supposedly working. If you get evac volunteers, they should be vetted for reasonable physical capability to ensure they are not subject to undue exertion during the move - and the team should practice periodically. I have tried the evac chair (http://www.paraid.co.uk/evacchair/)and it worked fine, with little discomfort to the disabled person.
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