Posted By Adam Jackson My take on it would be - does the job require the use of RPE as there is no other method of controlling the risk? If the answer is Yes then some form of RPE has to be used. So, sit down with the chap himself and go through the available types - can you get something which is a good alternative to a mask. For example, would he be able / willing to wear an air-fed visor with filtering. That way you're not reliant on the seal of a mask - I would think there must be a solution here. Its pricier than an ordinary mask, but would solve the problem. If you can't find anything that he can wear and the beard cannot go, then you must remove him from the job.

Posted By Rod Douglass Adam, Thats my take on it? However I am now going to move the goal posts, the same guy is now in the Army and serving in Iraq or some other theatre of War with a Nuclear, Biological & Chemical (NBC)threat, he is an esssential part of the Electronic Communications Team and it is vital that he is sent there, the only respirator available is the Respirator issued to all members of the Armed Services which is a "face fit" respirator. What next? Aye, Rod

Posted By Jennifer Kelly I was under the impression that duties under H&S law can override those relating to discrimination - ie the headteacher at the school where a Muslim girl wanted to wear a more modest hijab, said that this had H&S implications in terms of the extra cloth being a tripping hazard and teachers not being able to readily identify pupils if their faces were covered. Be interested to know what people's experience of this issue is. Jennifer

Posted By Karen Todd Whilst I don't have any experiences of the forces, I have friends who have. I was told of one person in the army who is vegetarian. I had imagined that he would just have to make do with not eating meat from the meals available. However, I was told that he gets his own meals made specially, to make sure he gets the nutrition he needs (an army marches on it's stomach and all that). So, if this could be accomodated, then could your issue be accomodated? Also, although I do not work in the oil industry, I understand they have a clean-shaven rule. How does this work? Or are people made aware of the rule when applying for the jobs and told that if they can't work to the clean shaven rule then don't bother to apply for the job? Regards, Karen

Posted By Rod Douglass Straun, Are you in the Forces? Del you are spot on the Miltary have alternative Respirators for Personnel who have facial hair for Religous reasons and also for Naval Personnel who are allowed to have facial hair, also Pioneer Sergeants who are required to have Beards. Straun, If you join up you go where you are told!! Ask The 1st Battalion Black Watch!!!! However it might have changed since I was in I left the Army after 22 years in July 2001.............. Aye Rod

Posted By Struan Rod-- I'm been tried and tested and got loads of Tee shirts vd, bars and scars. The old adage of "you'll go where your told" largely depends on which Arm. In the army and navy, if there was a risk of NBC during a conflict then the order of clean shaven is adopted.In all my years I've yet to come accross a buddy buddy decon with one guy wearing a hood and the other wearing a std issue respirator. Remember H&S etc etc is thrown out the window during any conflict. Am I going on!!!!!!!! Are there any turban wearing Black Watch Jocks out there?

Posted By Struan R.E. first in last out

Posted By Struan Yes with attached R.N at the moment, but lets not be too inquisitive thankyou Rod! I crop up from time to time.

Posted By fats van den raad The "clean shaven" policy has been adopted by some companies who deal in products where personal protection, cross contamination and hygiene is a big issue e.g. pharmaceutical manufacture. I know of a rather large pharmaceutical manufacturer with a chain of high street stores who adopted a "clean shaven" policy some years ago. The policy was that being clean shaven for existing employees was encouraged, but on a purely voluntary basis. New employees signed up to the policy as part of the contract of employment. The only exeptions are on religeous or medical reasons and specific provisions are made in these cases.

Posted By Laurie Where do you get the idea that H&S is thrown out of the window in any conflict? The Minister may suspend it at his/her discretion, however............ At the time of the first Gulf War I attempted to get COSHH exemption for those personnel from my base who were in theatre, i.e. actually there, doing it. Exemption was refused, and responsibility was passed down to local commanders on the spot. So far as I am aware no such exemption was ever issued, locally or otherwise. If it had been you can bet that Gulf War Syndrome would have been hung on some poor young 2nd Lieut. two weeks out of Sandhurst! Laurie

Posted By Del Basi Rod Once again, thank you for starting this tread. As for Straun's question about 'turban wearing Black Watch heroes'. I start by complimenting the men of Black Watch and wishing them all a safe return by Christmas. As for the Sikhs, we are a proud warrior caste with many regiments in the Indian army. NBC or no NBC threat, the Sikh soldiers would not look for reasons to avoid their duty. If you are in the armed forces your life can be on the line at any time. As for my own situation, soon after graduating in 1985, I went to an exhibition at Wembly conference centre looking for my first job. The stand that particularly attracted my attention belonged to the Army. However, the Officers at the stand laughed off my prospects of making a career in the army. I thought to myself, if they don't want me, why should I put my life on the line. As you can probably tell, I still regret letting myself be put off from persuing this honourable career. As far as RPE is concerned we all know that the fit is only one important aspect that needs to be considered. We also need to determine whether it is fit for purpose - for this you need to obviously consider the type of airborne contaminants; the concentaration levels; duration of exposure etc. As for the MoD instruction, for Sikhs to be clean shaven in operational environments with a threat of NBC - this would not be acceptable to an orthodox Sikh, in which case it ought to be possible for that person to perform other duties in support of his colleagues. Sorry about the long rambling nature of this message. My best wishes to the Black Watch and all other members of our armed forces.

Posted By Stuart Nagle Rod. As you appear to be aware, facial hair and 'face fit masks for respirators/Breathing apparatus is a no-no, for very good reasons... You don't see fire fighters with beards do you! The all dancing all singing answer is an alternative seal method, that mainly being a 'neck-seal' on a hood type device. Only trouble with this is that they are best suited to positive pressure BA systems (whihc inflate the hood) and not so comfortable with respirator type devices (hood does not inflate). Regards... Stuart