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#1 Posted : 29 October 2004 12:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Bennett Please don't shoot the messenger here but I have been asked a question regarding Legionella. I currently work for a Local Authority and we have recently issued a corporate policy on Legionella. A question has come back regarding tropical fish tanks - OK, when you have stopped laughing please read on. 1. The water temperature is between 22C and 45C. 2. There is a build up of sediemnt. 3. The system contains materials which harbour or provide nutrients for bacterial growth. 4. There is condensation and evaporation. 5. The water is recirculated. The only thing missing is the volume of water. We have these tanks in various care centres so the population "at risk" is often aged and frail. My first reaction was one of "go away and don't be silly", (or words to that effect!). However, when you look at the criteria for Legionella to thrive the tropical fish tank is a good fit! Someone please put my mind to rest on this one and then I can move onto the next "dumb question"!
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#2 Posted : 29 October 2004 13:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By David A Jones Interesting question!!! Not sure whether it is an issue - you never seem to hear of cases caused by fish tanks. I presume that in order for the fish to survive you must meet the requirements for water quality through the addition of appropriate minerals and that the water is partially replaced on a regular basis with 'fresh' treated water
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#3 Posted : 29 October 2004 13:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Petrie Legionalla is transferred via airborne droplets (e.g. shower heads, mist from cooling towers, splashes from high pressure taps etc), I can't see how a fish tank would manage to do this. Unless you're residents are using them to fill up their water pistols of course!
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#4 Posted : 29 October 2004 13:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad Andy You can actually get a spray/droplets etc from fishtanks (possibly from movement of the water from the pump or from air crtains, bubbles etc) This is actually a very interesting question.!! I'm gonna do some research on this........
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#5 Posted : 29 October 2004 13:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad Right then.. Just spoke to my "Legionella man" and he says that he thinks it is highly unlikely as the movement of the water is not vigorous enough (sorry andy, you were right after all) He also says that the recirculation of the water and the constant oxygenating will prevent the bug from being present in the fishtank. Apart from that, he has never heard in all his years of a case traced back to a fishtank. (He did offer though, that, if you were worried, he'd come and take some samples for analysis....... typical consultant!!!!!)
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#6 Posted : 29 October 2004 14:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Philip McAleenan Steve, have a look at this link; http://www.lewis.conquer...nternet.co.uk/legion.htm Regards, Philip
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#7 Posted : 29 October 2004 14:02:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Bennett I suppose if you was to drop a Consultant into a tropical fish tank full of Piranha the water movement would be quite "vigorous"! Just kidding, it's Friday and I just wanna go home! Thanks for the feedback guys. Much appreciated. Steve (a Consultant!).
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#8 Posted : 29 October 2004 15:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker Just a thought - can fin rot cross the species barrier?
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#9 Posted : 29 October 2004 15:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Heather Aston Only if you've got fins.... (Friday afternoon again huh?) Heather
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#10 Posted : 29 October 2004 15:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Steve Bennett Definitely getting silly now ........ The question has to be asked "Does fats have fins?" Goodnight and goodbye to Wales and hello to the delights of the M4 on a Friday afternoon!
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#11 Posted : 29 October 2004 15:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze Heather, You've obviously not met Jim yet then, he is in fact a Sunfish IRL with this most amazing pectoral fin!
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#12 Posted : 29 October 2004 15:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze And Fats is really a Greater Crested Newt, so it's technically not a fin and more of a dorsal frill.
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#13 Posted : 29 October 2004 16:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gilly Margrave I don't know about fins but I am definitely a little Gilly!
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#14 Posted : 29 October 2004 16:48:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gilly Margrave Talking of newts it's nearly pub time. Gilly
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#15 Posted : 29 October 2004 16:50:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Friday ? Who said it was Friday already ? What am I doing here !
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#16 Posted : 29 October 2004 18:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By john r sharp If you are concerned about legionella, why not do a 'dip slide' test on each of the tanksa sdetailed in "L8-Legionnaires disease-The control of legionella bacteria in water systems". Kits are available from a number of sources(look on the Web) and are easy to carry out. Or, there are companies who will take the samples and report back on the findings. You can then repeat the tests at regular intervals and be able to prove that there is no legionella. Hope that this of use. John Sharp
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#17 Posted : 29 October 2004 20:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jason Touraine I would suggest dosing the tank with bleach to be on the safe side.
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#18 Posted : 30 October 2004 18:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman I believe another treatment for water systems is circulating water at a higher temperature - maybe 60 to 70°C. I would probably take the fish out first, but suit yourself.
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#19 Posted : 01 November 2004 11:35:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Petrie Raising the water temperature to 70 C would certainly solve the problem, however I would avoid the fish soup in the canteen for the next few days.
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#20 Posted : 01 November 2004 11:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad Raising the temperature? The scientisits tells us that this will kill legionella, and I have got the t shirt that reads "tropical fish don't like it too hot" (thermostat stuck on... 100 litres of guppy soup)
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#21 Posted : 02 November 2004 09:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Ken Taylor Presumably the water is in a respirable form for the fish. I wonder whether they are at risk from Legionella? The main issue I had to address with fish tanks was the proximity of non RCD-protected electrical socket outlets.
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#22 Posted : 02 November 2004 10:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad That's done it.... gonna have to get fishtank for office now... just gotta do it!!!!
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#23 Posted : 02 November 2004 11:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jonathan Breeze In which case Fats, you will also need to check for Salmonella as well. Especially if you intend keeping terrapins. Can't vouch for Legionella though - it's not my area.
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