Posted By Ben jenkins Hi every one why is it that we have to keep on and on to line managers about there responsibilities under the h&s act to make sure the systems in place work

Posted By Merv Newman Because we haven't convinced them of how much extra profit they can make by working safely.

Posted By John Murgatroyd If you try to convince then they'll make more profit by spending more on health and safety, they'll shut their ears AND shut the door after they've thrown you out. You're paid to sort out H&S matters, they're bored to tears with it. Short term problems: Squashed feet = safety boots/shoes Damaged eyes = safety specs Torn-off limbs = guards Long term problems: Lung problems due to dust = ignore, 20yr plus so who gives a monkeys. Prove it. Get the message ? H&S matters are all relative, if there's no chance, or little chance of it rebounding onto their cheque book then forget it. Some long-term problems cannot be ignored (asbestos etc) but for the rest, they are.

Posted By Sean m Ben... Try this angle... 1. Because that’s why THEY pay you a wage! 2. They do not have the SKILL and therefore are not COMPETENT.. That’s why they pay you a wage! 3. There would be a lot of H&S people out of work should managers undertake this duty! but they do not.. So they pay you a wage! 4. If you don't enjoy the job.. stop bleeting and try another career. People will always have issues with managers due to 'human factors'. Simply posting a thread trying to make yourself feel better due to the fact that YOU may have problems will not help you... You collectively state that we ALL do?? how do you have the knowledge to generalise? I work for a company that regard safety as very important.... perhaps I am lucky. I alway feel that H&S people should have one great skill and that is 'Interpersonal'... then back it up with MIOSH and RSP etc. Without the first you will struggle to find work even with the other two. Regards Sean

Posted By M Abrar There are no simple answers as there are so many variables, not least of which are the role that the H&S person is perceived to have and the attitudes of individuals. Most people genuinely do not see that they could be in a position where their acts or omissions might result in someone's injury. That, coupled with the fact that most managers do not see a link between their H&S performance and their business performance, make the job of convincing them difficult. I have found that making it personal - if you fail, you are responsible and you can tell the widow - sometimes works. You might try showing what benefits there can be for their business performance. There is material available that you could use, e.g., the case studies on the HSE website (www.hse.gov.uk/businessbenefits/index.htm). Convince the most senior management and the rest should be easier. If all else fails, be able to prove you took all reasonable steps to ensure the managers knew their responsibilities! Hope this helps.

Posted By Merv Newman As I said above : "Because we haven't convinced them of how much more profit they can make by working safely" Having read the other responses there are now so many arguments running through my mind that I'm just going to put them down as statements, without arguing them : * It is our job to convince management to do it safely. That is what we are paid for * There are three categories of accident causes ; The work environment, the management of safety and the human factor. Deal with them all simultaneously. If you can't get enough money or management involvement NOW then you have to work at management's pace. * Investment in safety is the one which gives the fastest ROI * As someone else said "look at the case studies". Condense them and work them into any communications you have with senior management. * As consultants (trust us) we only ever get called in (we don't advertise or cold call) by managers who have already seen how much others have saved by investing in safety * The biggest manufacturing plant I know has an accident rate 1/15th of the national average. And they have just completed a third round of ergonomics evaluations of 1 500 work posts (they employ their own specialists. And they want to do even better * In our trade we have to be multi-skilled and multi-talented. We have to be competent. and chartered. If we don't have the competencies required we must acquire them or do the other thing lost the thread now - phone call from my wife saying her mini nearly failed the mot - indicator bulbs are the wrong colour. It's those picky safety people again.

Posted By Bill Bircham Simply put, you are not part of the problems they have to face day to day, production targets, performance targets, staffing issues, budgets, etc etc. I find the key is to get to understand their problems from their point of view, help them find solutions that may or may not involve improving H&S, but then when you do come along with something, they like you, see you as part of the team, someone who will help . . they then tend to listen.