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Posted By Lisa Eldridge
I am trying to find a good health & safety training course for our home managers. We are a company based in Stockport, Greater Manchester. Ideally the course would be one day, and centred around health and safety in care homes. I would be most grateful if anyone could recommend any training.
Many thanks
Lisa
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Lisa,
This is not the first query of this sort I've seen on these forums. I also work in a Care Charity, and the Personal Social Services sector accounts for many millions of employees. This is scarcely acknowledged by the H&S industry. There are some encouraging signs. A H&S advisor in one of our Care Service has obtained CIEH accreditation for his in-house version of the Foundation course, so this is one fruitful line you could pursue. If you don't have the time or inclination to develop your own materials and get them accredited, the IOSH Managing Risk in Healthcare is very much along the right lines, though clinical rather than social care based. The course's developer and business manager have told me that, given enough interest, they could tweak the course relatively easily to increase its relevance to a social care setting. However, this is a five day course and fairly pricey. The same goes for Managing Safety or CIEH advanced, both of which contain sections which can be specified by the course provider.
The problem with the latter approach is that we still have to talk about things like noise assessments to people who have absolutely no need for them. We do need good quality accredited one day courses tailored for our industry, and they aren't there, (unless they are, in which case I too would love to hear about them!)
John
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Posted By Lisa Eldridge
Thank you for your response. I have had a look at the accredited training and agree that it is very expensive. As we are a not for profit charity we have to keep the cost down, so this is really out of the window.
Thanks to all those who have responded to me
by e-mail.
Lisa
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Lisa and John
I wonder to what extent you may be looking for the impossible when you say that you want, in John's words, 'good quality accredited one day courses tailored for our industry'.
My limited experience of working with care homes is that the quality of management varies enormously, from the inspiring to the incompetent and downright arrogant and illegal exploiters of staff.
Assuming you belong more to the 'inspiring' pole, it should be possible to negotiate a fair deal, with IOSH-registered safety practitioners, provided you can offer a reasonable continuity of work, perhaps across different organisations.
One of the practical difficulties here is that the risks common in care homes, musculo-skeletal and stress disorders, are not those with which all safety professionals are highly skilled.
I suggest that, through your trade association and/or professional groups, you consider options for offering a fair deal to safety professionals who can perhaps team up to meet your needs.
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Posted By Lorna Morris
Lisa
You may have seen my earlier thread re accreditation of in-house courses. I am a CIEH trainer so based my in-house training on some of their material but they will not accredit it because I took out all the bits I considered irrelevant (eg noise). So far, I haven't found any other professional body who will accredit mine or provide a suitable one day course for my sector. I'm amazed - it seems to be such a big gap in the market.
I suggest you get hold of one or more of the CIEH course workbooks (quite cheap, under a fiver)and tailor it to fit. I have seen the IOSH healthcare course, not bad but it does need tweaking to fit social care.
As for external providers, be very careful as they will often follow the standard syllabus & parts of it are not only irrelevant, they can be a big turn off (eg hard hats & forklift trucks).
Contact me direct if you need more help.
Lorna
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Posted By Lisa Eldridge
Thanks Lorna & Kieran for your replies
I will certainly have a look at both of your suggestions.
Many thanks
Lisa
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Posted By J Knight
I am an IOSH Registered Safety Practitioner. I know I could deliver the training in house (I also have C&G 730/7 Part 1); this isn't the point. There are more people working in the Care & Personal Social Services sectors than in manufacturing; factor in Healthcare and we probably outnumber manufacturing, construction and agriculture put together. Our sectors are not risk free; admittedly we find it hard to kill our employees, but we are fairly good at crippling them, and we do a fair old job of bumping off the odd service user.
As far as I know only IOSH has recognised the needs of this market; no other national training provider produces accredited courses which can effectively meet the needs and expectations of our audience. I know this. My previous employer (a top 10 charity and disability service provider) ran CIEH Foundation for all employees. This is a good course, but not for Care Workers. It took all my training skill to tailor this for their needs and interests and still manage to impart enough of the syllabus to get most people through the test.
Thanks to everybody who has offered tailored courses in house. I'm not currently looking for training providers as most of our Care Centres already have their own arrangements in place; my point is a general one about tailoring nationally accredited Safety training to workplace requirements; these have changed, so should the training,
John
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
It is interesting that John feels it necessary to repeat his beliefs, without any apparent reasoning to support them.
Besides being on the IOSH training panel, I'm authorised as an Assessor by a professional society to assess the work of professional staff of M Sc standard to determine whether they meet the required standard.
I see no difference whatsoever in the standard of work I do that is specifically 'accredited' by a third party, and other work that I do on the basis of professional codes of practice. I invest the same care and commitment into both.
Some clients act on the belief that they 'should' get better value at less cost just because a third party parent-figure gives their blessing. Real competence in selecting trainers does not require 'accreditation'. Sadly, the difficulty in tracing suitable trainers is likely to be increased by insisting on unnecessary bureaucracy.
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Kieran,
I don't understand your last post. I have stated that the courses available from accredited bodies (with the exception, recently, of IOSH) don't sufficiently address the needs of the Care sector. I haven't commented at all on the need for accredited training or otherwise, or the relative merits of either. All I've said is that if I need it, I can't get it. I certainly haven't said that there's anything wrong with training that isn't accredited, I design and deliver it myself! However, there are contexts where accredited training is helpful, such as when we're convincing NCSC or CHAI inspectors that we have good standards, or when we're trying to ensure consistency over a very dispersed organisation. And if we do insist on accredited training (as my former emloyer did) it's very hard to get it in a form that my fellow workers find palatable. That's all.
I really don't understand your comments about costs; apologies if I struck a raw nerve! I haven't mentioned money, and as far as I can see neither has anybody else in this thread. I fully agree that if we want quality we should expect to pay accordingly. And I certainly agree that the standard of training isn't governed by accreditation; there are good and bad trainers out there. I always look for references or take recommendations if I'm looking outside the organisation, whether the content of the course is accredited or not.
Evidence, by the way is just based on my time as a H&S professional in the Care Industry. And what I'd like is for the big accreditors, such as CIEH, C&G, RSH and so on to give us something we can use. We tried talking to CIEH while I was in my last job, but they weren't really interested,
John
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Posted By Sharon Swift
Hi Lisa We have just piloted a 3 day Managing Health & Safety in Social Care Course for our Social Services and Care Managers in Cumbria. Provided by Woodwards SHE Ltd of Carlisle I'll email you further contact information for Woodwards, Feedback from managers has so far been very positive.
Kind Regards
Sharon
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Posted By stuart cross
I've just been reading this thread
I have to point out that care sector does have people who are affected by noise..Gardeners using strimmers (about 104dB(a), lawnmowers, habdymen using all sorts of hand tools (also vibration) so even though CIEH insist it is covered in the syllabus it can bee done fairly quickly and with relevance. PS I'm the guy with the CIEH course mentioned by J Knight
Stuart
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Posted By J Knight
Hi Stuart,
We have a tiny number of gardeners and handymen, loads of care workers. Noise can be mentioned when we need it to be; for most people in the care industry it is an irrelevance. What's worse it, and similar 'hard' H&S subjects are a real turn-off for most of the audience,
John
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Posted By Lisa Eldridge
I just have to add that cost is definitely a factor for our company. I am not particularly worried about having an accredited course - really just something that fits our company and is aimed at managers and is more relevant to care than engineering.
I will contact those of you who have e-mailed shortly
many thanks it is very encouraging that so many companies are willing to provide tailor made training
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Posted By Kevin West My organisation develop and carry out training for a number of different organisations in many different sectors and will tailor them to meet your exact requirements. Many of our courses are accredited by external bodies such as IOSH and the CIEH. We also run the usualIOSH Managing Safely etc that other consultancies run. The reason why many organisations use National Britannia to develop bespoke courses is due to our extensive experience and expertise in many areas in many sectors. We have worked extensively in Care Homes delivering both training to staff and other consultancy services most notably with Leonard Cheshire Care Homes. Therefore, a professional course can be developed and delivered to meet the exact needs of our clients without our client needing to develop their own courses, thus saving them valuable time and resources with the added assurance the advice given in the training course is relevent, up to date and correct. For further information regarding National Britannia's training capabilities and courses please feel free to contact me. Kevin_west@natbrit.com
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