Posted By Mike Miller
Sean,

Thats an interesting question and one which I would also like an answer also. If you need experience to be a Planning supervisor you will need a couple of years at least in the role. However how do you get the job without experience in the first place. No one will take you on without it. Also I have never seen any offers or vacancies for junior planning supervisors or any mentoring programms. Even if you go for MaPS it will still mean 'no experience no job' Can anyone out there shed some light?

Planning supervisers don't come out of boxes primed and ready but despite the many out there, there is still a shortage! is it any wonder if it is a closed shop.

Posted By Dave Daniel
although they are legally required to be competent, I have met some who cannot even correctly cite safety law correctly (".. comply with the Asbestos at Work Act..." - and a member of the professional body to boot!)or whose "safety plans" have serious deficiencies or errors requiring abandonment of their planning in favour of a safer alternative. Some seem to have very little knowledge of safety.

On that basis there appear to be no standards or requirements. Of course there are some very competent individuals. Might I suggest this is horses for courses and that an intimate knowledge of the Common Sense at Work Act and the associated Plain English Regulations will go a long way to providing qualification

Posted By Jeff Manion
I work as a Planning Supervisor am a MaPS and have used others related qualifications (Do hold a P402 & P405 (asbetsos) I also hold a MIOSH / RSP / MRSH / MIIRSM)for larger jobs act as as part of a team and myself as the team leader recently worked with demolition / radiation / gases / asbetsos / biological hazards / structural alterations / operational medical research in grounds of hospital with limited access. This approach has helped me and others through the role.
Have aslo advised the planning supervisor apointed as they were no good and did not understand.
Have met many planning supervisors who just use the same documents for all jobs - I see it as a funding resource for many who say they are "planning supervisors", when challenged they no little of H&S.
Recently met a PS who stated they were to review / approve all method statements! They thought it was part of thier role / duty.
Have been involved with the role since 1995, working from M&E background rather than civils, taking advice from eletrical engineers / civils and strutural.
Having worked with H&S for many years am still developing the way we do it.
Simple jobs simple docs.
Complicated jobs will require input from other parties.
My thought would be to work with a "planning supervisor" and challenge them. Many will take fright as they are not challenged enough and in my opinion seek to add some sort of mystery to the role.
To be a planning supervisor requires you to acknowledge your limitations and to seek advice from others parties (radiation / strucural etc) to enable gathering of information.

Jeff Manion. MIOSH, RSP, MRSH, MIIRSM, MaPS, MIHPE, MRIPH, SpDipEM.
Registered with the CITB for the control of legionella.

Posted By Martyn Hendrie
I think a point that most people miss is that most of the time the Planning Supervisor should be a corporate appointment.

I agree with skills required set out by others, but consider that the PS role is best fulfilled when lead by someone with a design background with reasonable safety knowledge backed up by safety experts and those skilled in administering the required paperwork.

If designers are to be influenced by Planning Supervisors they must be there at the time decisions are being made, NOT someone who tells them after the event that they have got it wrong.

Martyn

PS I just wondered what size briefcase Jeff has for his business cards

Posted By Jeff
Martyn

Could you explain the term 'corporate appointment' for me.

Thanks

Jeff

Posted By Steve99Jones
Mike

A major overhaul (scrapping??) of the CDM Regulations has already commenced and in line with most HSE revisions the timetable is already about 12 months behind schedule!

Have a look at the following links:

www.APS.org.uk

www.hse.gov.uk/construction/designers/consult.htm

Steve

Posted By John Caboche
My feelings on the issue of CDM is, that as a set of legislation it has 50% failed.
Many planning supervisors (or indeed designers)that I have worked with have no idea of the effects of design on health and safety on site. I would disagree with Martin, that designers make good planning supervisors, in my experience they make the worst as they have little or no concept of the realities of managing safety on a construction site, or indeed in many cases how construction sites operate. I realise that this is a sweeping generalisation, but it is based on my 18 years experience at the sharp end of construction.

The best planning supervisors I have met and worked with are the ones who have worked on site as agents and managers rather than designers.

I think many design consultancies regards PS duties as somewhat of a closed shop, which they can charge extra fees for, and seem to be blind to recruiting experienced personnel from a site background.
Does anyone else have any experience of this?

The 50% of the regulations that have worked (in my opinion) are the ones concerned with the princple contractor and contractors. This may be because enforcement is much stricter on site than in design offices possibly, however, the majority of contractors seem to have taken on board the requirements of construction phase health and safety plans, method statements et al. Maybe now the HSE have started looking at prosecuting designers and planning supervisors this may change.....

In terms of qualifications for planning supervisors, (to get the thread back on topic!!)there are no hard and fast rules, I would say site experience is more importatant than qualifications. I would suggest that the NEBOSH Construction Certificate is a good starter, but in the absence of this, the CITB 5 day Site Managers course, which is the construction industry equivalent of IOSH managing safely, would give you a good grounding as to potential site hazards to look out for.

Regards

John

Posted By John Caboche
Martin,

Apologies for misconstruing your previous comments. I agree an integrated approach is the best way forward, and I also agree that too many Planning Supervisors see their duties stopping at meeting attendance.

I do, however, find it a bit disheartening when I see adverts for Planning Supervisors requiring previous experience as quantity surveyors!!

Regards

John

Posted By Martyn Hendrie
Jeff,

The Planning Supervisor's role is far more than just producing the "H&S Plan"

The Planning Supervisor is meant to see that the designers are doing their bit to make things safety in their designs. The contractor can't do that unless it is a D&B job.

As to why a corporate appointment
a) most people don't have all the skills required as an individual to be a PS.
b)HSE guidance indicates that in all but the simplest of projects it is anticipated that it will be a corporate role.
c)My experience is with the larger projects.

The bit of CDM that is not working properly yet is the pre-construction bit. I am sure that there are a number of good individuals who act as Planning Supervisors, but I've not met too many of them.