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Posted By Dan the Man
Hi all,
I know the minimum working (office) temperature is quoted @ 16 degrees, but does this mean that below this figure, e.g. 15 degrees, employees can 'walk out'? I'm refering to purely an office environment.
Many thanks.
D.
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Posted By J Knight
The minimum temperature isn't actually a minimum as such. Under the Offices shops and railway premises act the minimum working temperature was closely defined and had to be reached within a certain time, failing which employees could just simply walk out. Temperatures are now discussed in the Workplace regs and this states 'the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings shall be reasonable'; the guidance goes on to say that they should 'normally be at least 16 degrees Celsius'. So there is still a standard but it is rather more flexible than of old. In effect working temperatures should be decided by RA, taking into account the nature of the work and the people engaged in the work (somebody with poor peripheral circulation might need a higher temperature for example); it certainly isn't the case that you can just walk away from work without repercussions if 16 degrees isn't reached; on the other hand your employer would be wrong to allow you to freeze to death,
John
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Posted By Mark B
I thought the minimum temperature for office or sedentary work was closer to 19 degrees and that the 16 degree figure was for heavy or manual work. Or am I going mad?
Regards,
Mark.
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Posted By fats van den raad
Yep Mark, I'm afraid you are going mad. Have never heard of any recomendation stating 19 deg C. Norm has always been 16 deg C for work where you sit on your bum most of the time.
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter
On Mark's point, there used to be some Regulations that said that you could not heat any workplace to more than 19ยบ for energy conservation reasons. I don't know if they are still in force.
Paul
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
Dan
Unless simply 'walking out' is conducted solely and exclusively in order to control risks of injury or illness due to thermal risks, it is likely to be in breach of contract.
This is where the newly introduced (since October 2004) rules of employee grievance arise: an employee is now statutorily obliged to formally bring a grievance to the attention of his/her employer in the first instance and meet with the employer to resolve it.
So, if you can't resolve the difficulty by changing the physical temperature, change the psychological temperature by ensuring that they know about their responsibility to 'walk in' to a meeting with their employer to resolve their grievance in the first instance.
As my source for this was an ACAS specialist talking to a meeting of the CIPD London branch last month, if the employees approach ACAS or a Tribunal, they'll simply be told what I've just written.
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Posted By Ron Young
Paul,
I thought that the figure was 25C and was brought in as emergency legislation during one of the older miners strikes. I may be wrong
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Posted By Neil Pearson
The Workplace Regs ACoP says 16C except where there's considerable physical effort, when the limit is 13C. But these are minima - the standard to be met is that the temperature must be reasonable. CIBSE says for offices the temperature should be 20C, but even this can feel cold if you have air conditioning without humidification. It's a tricky area for employees. Unless you can show that your health & safety is being affected, you'll have trouble walking out above 16C.
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Posted By Mark B
Fats,
Your right, the minimum temperature is 16 degrees! I must have been thinking of the guidance around on optimum temperatures for office work i.e. 19.4 to 22.8 degrees taken from Stranks (fifth edition)and similar from many of the Trade Unions. This suggests that under these temperatures some workers may feel discomfort. Is it therefore acceptable to allow offices to drop as low as 16 degrees? or should this be followed as best practice?
Regards,
Mark.
regards
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Posted By fats van den raad
Ahhh now you see, there's a difference between what the ACOP etc hints at should be a minimum and what the likes of Messrs. Stranks et co and those lovely TU people consider to be a "comfortable" temperature.
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Posted By Neil Pearson
As I said above, I'd recommend looking to CIBSE etc for best practice guidance. The Workplace Regs only give absolute minimum temperatures, which would not be reasonable for the majority of offices.
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Posted By J Knight
I agree that best practice should always be followed in RA, and it looks perfectly reasonable that CIBSE guidance would have this status; the question of whether people can walk out though is a historical understanding from the old OS&RP Act, which has now been laid to rest. Nowadays it is RA and best practice that counts, not limits graven in stone,
John
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Posted By Patrick Teyhan
Dan, is this not an annual occurance?
Why not sit down with your employer and discuss what actions should be taken at certain temperatures?
i.e. if an individual is uncomfortable undertaking a sedentary activity at 16C then
i) move them to a working environment which is more "comfortable".
ii) failing i), provide additional auxillary heating, Fan Heater (PAT tested)of course.
iii) failing that and if the temperature will not reach the deisred temperature (needs to be agreed)
within an reasonable agreed period (1 hour)
iv) offer the individual the chance to take some work home
v) if this is not possible to run with any of the above, send the staff home and credit them with a normal working day and inform them that will be contacted to return once the problem in repaired.
Members of staff whom are happy to be working in the cold (the polar bears)should be left to it,
The temperature for sedentary work here is within target range's of 19 -23C temperature & Humidity of 40 - 70%.
Hope this of help as the minimum temperature is 16.5 degrees on old money. You can take it as read from a nice Trade Union type.
Without wanting to Hijack your string. Should these occurances of reported uncomfort be reported in the accident book, as a near miss?
Regards
Patrick
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Posted By Kieran J Duignan
The consensual response to Dan's question dwells on 'risk assessment'.
With the exceptions of Patrick and myself, everyone concentrated on the physical risks that can be measured by temperature.
Why did only a small minority not refer to the more complex behavioural risks?
To what extent does the risk of staff 'walking out' really turn on measures with a thermometer, however valid and reliable they may be?
Is this not a splendid, simple illustration of the relevance of 'behavioural safety' and application of the Safety Maturity model?
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Posted By Geoff Spanner
There is an excellent HSE Doc, 'thermal comfort in the workplace - guidance for employers' (HSG 194) that you may find useful
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Posted By Laurie
Don't forget that the 16 deg only applies from 1 hour after start work!
Laurie
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Posted By Dan the Man
Thank you one and all ! As usual lots of helpful advice and tips.
Just to clarify a little for one or two of the responses, i wished to know as i am employed as a Facilities Officer with the responsibility for H&S of the employees - as opposed to an employee looking to 'walk out' myself. Will take on board all advice provided.
As someone starting out in the field, NEBOSH Gen. so far and only 18mths experience, your tips are extremely useful, Many thanks.
(Just trying to work out my next course. Don't want to start another argument over courses ! )
Thanks all.
Dan.
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Posted By Rod Douglass
Dan,
The Workplace (Health, Safety and Welfare) Regulations 1992 require that "during working hours, the temperature in all workplaces inside buildings shall be reasonable". The Code of Practice that accompanies the Regulations suggests that, in a typical workplace (shops, offices, factories, and so on), the temperature should be at least 16 degrees C. If much of the work requires severe physical effort, the temperature should be at least 13 degrees C.
According to John Asprey of the Heating and Ventilation Contractors Association (HVCA), these temperatures would be considered by most building occupants to be below comfort levels - but the Code defines a reasonable temperature as taking into account clothing, activity level, radiant heat, air movement and humidity.
Hope this is of some help.
Aye,
Rod
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Posted By J Knight
The one hour after the start of work stipulation applied under the Offices, Shops and Railway Premises Act; there is no such statement in the Workplace Regs,
John
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Posted By Graham Peters
If there is no heating provide it.
If the heating system has broken down fix it.
If it will be a while to provide adeqaute heating supply temporary portable heaters.
Let your employees know what is happening to rectify the problem.
That is being reasonable.
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Posted By John Murgatroyd
You can read the new grievance procedures at :http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/new_resolving_disputes_laws.pdf
They apply to both parties....employers as well as employees.
If the employer has a complaint or grievance about am employee, they apply then as well.
They don't stop a complaint going to a tribunal, they just make the procedure slightly more complex and ensure that both parties get a chance to cool down a bit.
My company put the "3 steps" poster up, and I downloaded the entire file from the dti and gave that to them....smile wiped, face, from.
You should read it....note the part on employer not following the proper procedures..
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