Posted By Lisa Eldridge My company are contracting me out to do some consultancy work for another company. This involves one project just to set up the basics. The workplace is an office and so far I have carried out an initial assessment to see what they need. I am writing a report for them to say what shortfalls they have, some things they can do themselves and some I am going to do for them. They require me to do a whole health & safety policy, several risk assessments, and I am giving them some forms and checklists which I have devised that can be used. Can anyone give me a rough idea of what to charge the company for an all in cost, the company is based in the north west Many thanks Lisa

Posted By David Sinclair Lisa, I have had figures of £35.00 per hour and £400 per day (day not defined) quoted. I have also had £350 per day (up to 12 hour day) quoted by a disability access consultant. I don't know if these are typical. Regards. David

Posted By David S Burt I am very surprised at the levels of potential fees that have been quoted to date for work that is planned for a low risk environment. I can only assume that the rates that are being quoted are for a very experienced practitioner who as a minimum is a MIOSH and probably a FIOSH backed up with a considerable number of years of experience. If someone can confirm to me that these are the rates that a consultant can earn in the North West I would be more than happy to relocate from the southeast to the North-West where I am sure that I could increase my earnings potential by taking on work in lower risk work environments which in turn would significantly reduce my current PI rates. Come to think of it at those sorts of rates I can afford to commute on a daily basis by flying from Heathrow. A more realistic rate for a person who is operating in a consultancy role on a project that involves establishing a safety system for an office environment would probably be around £200 a day. Anyone charging a higher rate than this should remember that at least Dick Turpin wore a mask was robbing people.

Posted By Stephen Boardman Hi Lisa, I agree totally with the last posting from Steve. I am a self employed consultant and it is difficult at face value what to charge when faced with a task like the one you are doing low risk or not, It may take you 2 or 3 days to complete the task or you may find things when doing your initial audit that will require research therefore more time. It is a safe bet to charge between £30-35 per hour, therefore if it takes longer or you come across something you had not allowed for then your covered. We may love our work but we still need to make a living. Regards Steve

Posted By Roger the Dodger If David Burt is going to make a living and make a profit at £200 per day, he can have all our consultancy work from the organisation I currently work for. I don't work in consultancy at present, but have worked for 3 consultancies in the past. Even when I started in H&S consultancy in 1996, the going rate was £250 - 400 per day depending upon the client size/job size and other factors to be taken into account as mentioned by the other postings. Sorry to have to say it, but please don't take it the wrong way David, but you seem not to understand how consultancies work and the additional costings that have to be considered when quoting for consultancy work.

Posted By David S Burt I find the postings that had been added since my response even more interesting and they do go a long way towards explaining why it is that so many people are starting up their own consultancies on the back of NEBOSH General Certificates and other entry level health & safety qualifications. As a stated in my previous posting a reasonable rate to carryout this work in a low risk office based environment is around the £200 a day mark. This is based on the assumption that the person carrying out the work would be in possession of a NEBOSH General Certificate. It has been said that assuming the consultant only works for 40 weeks of the year the fee of £200 per day would not be sufficient for the consultancy to make a profit. However I tend to disagree on this point on the basis that if the person works for 40 weeks of the year that gives a gross income to the consultancy of 40k pa. Now allowing for normal overheads that are generally reckoned to be in the region of 56% and the consultant’s salary being around 22k, that still allows for a modest profit for the employer. OK so the amount of profit does not appear to be that great but in % terms it is actually around 16%. Now ask your employers if they think a 16% return is a reasonable return. Based on the above I stand by my original posting on this matter where I say that to charge a client more than £200 per day for conducting this type of work would be very unrealistic. Roger my company would be more than happy to take on all your consultancy work associated with low risk work environments like offices at a rate of around £200 a day and I can assure you that my company which I have successfully run for over five years will still make a good profit. My company also takes on work in a significant number of high risk high hazard environments and I can assure you that in those sorts of work environments the rates charged reflect the level of risk. The justification for the significantly higher rates is based upon the qualifications and skills base that are required to actually complete these particular types of work. Oh by the way my Company is a Limited Company not a sole trader, we are also VAT Registered and we do have a dedicated office, with technical equipment, access to expensive data services, technical specailist help etc etc. Our junior consultants are qualified to NEBOSH General Certificate & or NEBOSH Construction Certificate level while our more experienced consultants all hold MIOSH status.

Posted By Merv Newman Yes there are approximately 40 weeks, 200 days available, but a consultant will never be paid for each one of those 200 days. Unless he/she does all the travelling on weekends. For a start, no-body wants a consultant during a holiday period. At least two weeks are lost for christmas and new year, one for easter and up to three months during the summer. (which makes for long, if unpaid, consultant summer holidays)So we are already down to 38 weeks, 190 days. Next week I have two one-day jobs (paid) The first is 300 miles south of the office, the second is about the same distance north. So for two paid days I have four unpaid days travelling. As this happens quite often, I can count my average availability for paid days as three per week. 38x3 = 144. (Un)fortunately, it is not every week that I have a job to do. And I usually do about 5 (unpaid) meetings a year to sell our services. Etc. Etc Looking back over the past 12 years, I think I have averaged about 100 to 120 paid days per year. Any prospective consultant should realistically base their business plan on that kind of production level. Sure, even 100 days at £200 sounds attractive. But don't you believe it.

Posted By Jez Corfield A charge of £200 a day seems low, err.... very 'reasonable' - Associate work seems to pay at £200-£300 per day, that means the individual gets £200-£300 per day, not the consultancy, who would presumably charge about double. For this, the consultancy takes the risk, does the admin, arranges meetings/venues and gets the business. To make a living by charging £200 per day must mean a packed full diary and low overheads Outside of London £400-£600 seems to be the reasonable limit per day for a consultant - talking with some colleagues the rate for London maybe much, much higher. Jez

Posted By Paul Bellis Thats it ... I am definately reviewing my prices... Im far too cheap. Im only geting about £200 per day at present £250 if im lucky..Anyone need a cheap health and safety consultant

Posted By Roger the Dodger Sure do, when the electric company, council and staff take a cut in wages/bills etc, than such discounts could be passed on to clients for continued use of services by clients ........... well you can dream about it

Posted By Rob T I am not a "consultant" however I have employed some short term and I have been "sold" to "special" projects for short term work by my previous company. I very much think that it depends on the level of specialism and length of time required which dictates the price. The range I have seen or been involved in for a daily rate is between £300 pd and £1500 pd + expenses. I have been sold out by my previous mob for a variation of £700 per day! Horses for courses basically. If you want someone to do basic level office risk assessments then £300 pd is reasonable but if you want someone to create a purpose built safety management system with auditing systems built in, then you're looking for a sight more.

Posted By Mark Talbot Hi, Good discussion, getting a little ragged, but you also have to consider competencies in report writing and auditing. A competent auditor will complete a good quality audit in half the time [not sientific, but a guess based on experience]that it takes an inexperienced person to do a moderate job. With the marvels of 'cut and paste' and an experienced eye for problems and shortfalls, an audit becomes relatively mundane. By far a more complex issue [and this is where the hourly rate comes in] is policy and procedures documentation written to reflect what the client actually does and needs. H&S ridiculed by Ross, Top Gear, et al, is because incompetent people are producing unsuitable reactions to perceived problems that never materialise. Glad to see an opportunity for one business to help another - maybe 'mates rates' will apply? Regards Mark

Posted By Liam Mc Conalogue Hi Guys, I guess it all boils down to the standard and quality of service that is being provided by consultants. Of course the location of where the service is based also is another factor to consider. However, I agree with George to a certain degree that it will depend on competency. However, George I have met guys out there who have the Dip but not the experience- would you class these guys as competent? I have met consultants who had the NEBOSH Gen Cert but have more years experience than they would like to mention- would you class these individuals as incompetent? In my opinion a course alone does not make you competent, it takes both the course and the experience. But during interviewing I look at the qualification but more so at the experience. I have a feeling that if professionals start under-cutting fees, what fees the future may bring? Just a wee query- anyone out there able to quote fees for Northern Ireland & Republic of Ireland?

Posted By James M it is clear from this thread that there is a vast difference in prices. If you work on your own you may not be able to keep up to speed with the market forces. You may also not be able to get out and about enough to get new work. I have worked on long projects where I have received £250-300 per day. You will get what you are prepared to accept. One point from the client's side, I would confirm in the contract what I am getting. As the previous posts have highlighted, if you are signing up for a MIOSH consultant and along comes new boy with a tick sheet i would be on the phone straight away. My advice would be ensure that you are getting value for money and check the qualifications of the person who turns up, not the one who has completed the sales order.

Posted By Roger Interesting thread..... Personally I find there is no hard and fast rule - I work for SMEs, Universities and Major Multi nationals. My prices differ accordingly and so I would say there is no hard and fast rule. As previously mentioned, I charge what is in effect the true value of the work - even if changing header/footer in two minutes equates to £450. This offsets the work I do for SMEs where cost is very much the driving force and I therefore cut accordingly. Roger

Posted By Chris Black Don't charge less than 40/hour for a graduate/improvers time, i know some people who are on 22-23k who are charged out at this rate. If experienced in the field ask for 50/hour as a minimum.

Posted By Roger the Dodger In my experience of setting up yourself, the problems are the iniital period of setting up - getting your foot in the door of interested companies (there are lots of other consultancies!) A reliable feed of sales leads is essential Cash flow The time (can be months) from initial client contact/interest and turning this in to an actual order for services etc. Low numbers of clients, makes it difficlult to show credibility/relevant experience/business continuity for prospective new clients. Remember a clients line of thinking - their industry is so special nobody else can do it- whereas in reality only a small fraction of businesses have elements that are particulalry specialised.

Posted By Graham Peters Let the people in charge of your company work out their own charges

Posted By LIM BOON KHOON Hi Lisa, I am a regular reader of this forum. It was lately that I decided to register in this forum to share my knowledge and experience with you and fellow safety practitioners anywhere in the world. I have 35 years of hands-on experience initially as a EHS practitioner and thereafter another 15-20 years as a EHS consultant serving a broad-based industry in the Asia Pacific Region. I am not a local and therefore am unable to comment on postings made by other readers. As a practitioner I feel incumbent upon me to offer input or feedback to fellow practitioners. Firstly, I have a number of reference books on how to become an effective consultant. These books have served me well tremendously when I first set up my consultancy firm. If you or other readers who would like to have such information, please fee free to e-mail me and I would be glad to assist. Secondly, consultancy fee should be based on hourly rate which includes labour cost, overheads, insurance, profit margin, travel time, etc. It does not include transport claim, hotel accommodation, air fare, out of pocket expenses, etc. This are reimbursable. It must be spelt out in the Terms and Conditions of Contract. The hourly rate based on my experience should not be less than Pds 62 per hour. You need to have a timesheet signed daily by your client so that at the end of the month, you can invoice them accordingly for the hours you put in. Thirdly, in order to earn that rate, the report must be of a certain standard and quality. There must be depth and breadth in the report to reflect your commitment in the task. My current and potential clients in the Asia Pacific Region have complained about the high consultancy fee that we charged. However, when they saw the depth and breadth of our report, they were bought over and our business relationship has been maintained or continued thereafter. Fourthly, send a copy of the consultant's resume to your client for evaluation and convince them that the incumbent is competent for the task he is assigned to and that the fee you quoted is reasonable. Fifthly, you should adopt flexibility when dealing with your client - i.e. a give and take approach. Give your client value-added service and they will come back to you with more contracts or jobs. In short, sacrifice some for bigger gain or profit. Sixthly, I do not believe in lowering my consultancy fee just to follow herd instinct. Initially when I first started out, there is a temptation for me to do this as I feared loosing out in business. Through years of hard knocks of convincing industries, I then realised the importance of maintaining my credibility. I decided then not to follow herd instinct. Slow and steady, my clients saw my perseverance and began to offer me small jobs to try me out. I proved myself to them. Succumbing to herd instinct, would only damage my reputation and credibility as a competent peron to provide consultancy service. As a consultant, I always believe in upholding my integrity and credibility The above works well for me and I am not too sure whether this would be helpful to you or other fellow EHS practitioners who aspire to venture into EHS consultancy. Best Regards Lim Boon Khoon