Posted By Stuart Nagle Mark. I would say you had, in my opinion, got it about right. If the canteen contractor is wholly responsible for the canteen and all the equipment, cleansing ect as their own undertaking (regardles of actual ownership of the premises and equipment) and the your company enter into a contract to this effect, then the caterering company is responsible for its own reporting, although this could also be mentioned and discussed by, for example your health and safety committee. Does your company also inspect the canteen facility on a health and safety basis? if not it should do if the caterer does not or does not have such a facility, as this would also be in your company's interest - prevention is better than cure. In the case of the second accident, the contractor appears to be operating your equipment on your premises, and therefore your company would have responsibility, for both ensuring they are competent to use the equipment before allowing access, having some form of agreement that safe systems of work are operated and observed (in this case it appears not!). The accident may also be reported by the persons employer through their own system, including to HSE. Liaison is also needed by informing the persons employer, formally, of the accident and accident investigation etc. Stuart

Posted By Mark Bywater Stuart, Just to clarify a point for you - the skip and hoisting equipment belong to the waste contractor, we merely lease them from them. The contractor is totally responsible for the equipment and any servicing, maintenance, repair and emptying of it. They do not inform us of any visits they make to our sites to do any of this work either, which we now insist upon - naturally. Our engineers are not allowed to touch this kit, the only interface we have is lifting waste into the skip. Regards, Mark

Posted By Heather Aston Mark I would not have reported either of these myself under RIDDOR, but in each case, we would have filled out a treatment/investigation form and passed it onto the contractor's employer to report to HSE. In the case of a small contractor we would have helped them out with how to do the reporting if they didn't know. Both accidents would appear on our statistics database, but annotated as "contractors" and not counted towards the accident rate calclulations. Can't see that there's anything wrong with what you did as long as you've happy both have been reported and investigated properly by someone and records are kept. Heather

Posted By Mark Bywater Guys, Thanks for your input, if I were given leave to report or not purely on my own experience and knowledge, I would have expected to have conversations with both contractors and had them report their own Riddor accidents to the HSE based upon the control each of them had over their own staff. Well, this learning curve is really sharp that's for sure and it doesn't get any easier when you ask a question and get so many different views from fellow professionals. But many thanks to all the contributors anyway - keep up the good work guys (and gals)! Regards, Mark

Posted By Stuart Nagle Mark. Thanks for the additional information on the waste contractor. In your original posting the position was not clear. In retrospect, I Initially would have considered R - v - Associated Octel in respect of contractors working on the employers site and within their undertaking, however, as all the equipment is owned and operated by the contractor, this is not quite so clear cut. Whilst obviuously the contractor has responsibility for their own staff and their plant/equipment and its use, it is on your companies site...which does have an effect on your company in the event of a claim. With this in mind I would personally hold the view that your company has a duty to ensure that the contractor operates their plant/equipment on your site in a safe manner and in accordance with the O&M for the plant and equipment, their own safe system of work and in accordance with your company's safety requirements and by competent employees. in this case most of these seem to have been breached!! So far as reporting is concerned, the responsibility will lay with the waste contractor, but I would not be happy with leaving the matter there in respect of the operational safety issues, which may require review and further expansion/action. It would appear to be the case that should a claim arise both the waste contractor and your own company may both be liable (in varying degrees), your company for apparently failing to ensure that the contractor operated safely on your site. Irrespective of the fact that the plant and equipment was owned and operated by the contractor and by the contractors employee, the law may see negligence in your company for failing to ensure safety in operation of the waste plant/equipment, the fact that vehicles were obstructing an area that should not have been obstructed and also (as per the above posting) not enforcing your systems which require contractors to report - all of which are failures in the safe systems of work... The only good news is that contributory negligence by the contractors employee may limit any claim if one is made. I know it's easy to spout about these things and suggest all manner of woes, but having had similar experiences with contractors, the benefit of hindsight is a useful tool. Regards... Stuart