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#1 Posted : 25 January 2005 15:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By s.micklewright Our organisation (a housing provider) employs maintenance staff to carry out odd jobs such as hanging doors, minor electrical problems, glass replacement and a host of other typical jobs. Our lads are all qualified in their respective fields and are very competent. Many of the lads use their own electric tools, planers, saws, drills, etc. I am unsure what legislation if any applies here. Should we provide tools that are PAT tested regularly? who is responsible if a tool is faulty and causes an accident? Any advice, guidance on this matter would be very much appreciated. May I add that we would be more than happy to buy new tools if this was deemed appropriate. Thank You Simon
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#2 Posted : 25 January 2005 15:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jim Walker PUWER applies, regardless of tool ownership. It is unlikely in the event of an incident that the employer would escape liability for faulty tools. The employer should be in control of all work activities, I sugggest you take control ASAP.
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#3 Posted : 26 January 2005 16:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By s.micklewright Thanks Jim, Simon
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#4 Posted : 27 January 2005 14:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad Yep.. agree with Jim wholeheartedly. Can tell you from experience that the employer is responsible even if tools belong to employee.Ether buy new tools or put system in place where employee tools are inspected and tested on a regular basis
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#5 Posted : 27 January 2005 19:28:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stuart Nagle Given the possible insurance problems in the event of an accident, and of course the obvious lack of the right tooks, as your 'lads' are having to use their own, I would suggest you do as stated and buy them some to use, this should help protect the employer, provided of course that the tools are regularly tested, and serviced and correctly used etc.... Stuart
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#6 Posted : 27 January 2005 21:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Darmody Simon Strict Liability in respect of Work Equipment. Follow all the previous advice. Regards Mark
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#7 Posted : 28 January 2005 07:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete Driver But how far does this go? Most trades provide their own hand tools so from the previous answers the employer is responsible for those as well?
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#8 Posted : 28 January 2005 11:17:00(UTC)
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Posted By fats van den raad The answer to that really is yes, the employer is responsible. Here's the scene. Tradesman suffers hand injury when screwdriver handle breaks under pressure while he is using it. Investigation shows that screw driver is at least 20 years old with wooden handle that have worn away, split and splintered through the years. Employee told to take all similar equipment home and to replace. It is part of contract of employment is to supply own basic tools. (there is a tax deduction for this as well). What we as a company have done is to specify that tools must be of a certain standard and fit for purpose. I have actually carried out toolbox inspections, where we inspect employees tools for damage, etc. and agree with the employee which tools will be replaced by the company, and wich tools they will replace themselves. Criteria for this is normal wear and tear, they replace, damage specifically work related, company will replace. That way we keep control over use of "home made "tools as well as ensure standard of hand tools.
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#9 Posted : 28 January 2005 11:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste ...totaly agree with Fats....I spent 14 years in the motor trade, you were expected to buy your own tools, but the liability was all the dealerships. (It had to be, Snap-On and Mac tools are a fortune and a poor sparky or spanner monkey got vey little out of the £45 plus hourly labour charge! Although you could claim the tools as compensation!) They never inspected anything other than the electric powered tools though, I even had to pay for calibration on the AVO meter.... Its Friday and I'm rambling, what was the question?
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#10 Posted : 28 January 2005 11:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By s.micklewright Thanks everyone, I am on the case. Simon
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#11 Posted : 28 January 2005 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By s.micklewright Does anyone have a copy of a toolbox inspection checklist I could take a look at, something on the lines of what to look for in faulty tools etc? It would be much appreciated Simon
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#12 Posted : 28 January 2005 18:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By Merv Newman Simon, tried to send you a tool box audit check list. Something wrong with your e-mail address. Send me an e-mail and I will send it as a reply to yours. Anyone else interested ? Merv
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#13 Posted : 01 February 2005 12:38:00(UTC)
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Posted By Charles Robinson Tech SP PUWER state that where employers allow workers to use there own tools, (examples are given in the regs) that the employer is still responsible for the condition and suitability. over 20 years ago the mining industy recognised the risks of injury from defective equipment and provided all hand tools. Working in the Health Service I have for some time been concerned over the risks of cross infection from hand tools (supplied by maintenance staff) working on equipment such as bed pan washers, macerators etc then using the same tools in kitchens and opperating theatres and finaly taking home possibly contaminated equipment. All that I have todate been able to acheve is the supply of disinfectant wipes and the provision of some tools for use on potable water systems.
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#14 Posted : 01 February 2005 15:26:00(UTC)
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Posted By Andy Stokes Couple of thoughts to add to the debate: 1. Staff using their own cars for work purposes - seem to remember a Post Offce case where they were deemed not to have adequate systems for checking the vehicle used by their employee was suitable for the job, or indeed insured for work purposes. Response of a previous employer was an annual check of MOT certificates for all cars used by employees on business plus a copy of the insurance certificate. 2. We have a part-time employee (annual 3 month contract) owns and works on the neighbouring farm. He works for us for just these 3 months, and supplies all his own equipment - tractor, flail mower etc. When discovered the staff ask if we are responsbile for an accident if its caused by poorly maintained machinery, when all the kit is his. Unfortunately I believe we would be, and in fact we would be better off dealing with him as a contractor than as an employee as we cannot hope to be responsible for checking or indeed providing such kit. Have I missed something?
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#15 Posted : 02 February 2005 14:41:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Grady Try looking at it this way - if the tool is wrong for the job, and you have instructed somebody to carry out the work (an employee) on the basis of use of their own tools, have you adequately risk assessed it ? Some common sense is needed i.e. a good quality spanner, screwdriver remains a good quality tool so long as it is maintained. Who maintains it, or stops someone buying a cheap and inferior tool. Portable electric tools are tricky. There is the 240V issue. Maintenance and R/A issues still apply. Preparation of a standard list, requiring tools to a BS EN standard should help
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#16 Posted : 03 February 2005 11:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Childs The HSE publish a free leaflet available for download from their website that pretty much covers it: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg291.pdf
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#17 Posted : 04 February 2005 21:40:00(UTC)
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Posted By ken cook well I must work for the only company out there who did a risk assessment in line with all the regs and decided that because the company was liable the company buy ALL the tools and branded at that and are totally traceble through our tool supplier. we have 70 factory machine opperatives, all with there own tool kit cost approx £80.00 and four fitters tool kits at approx £750.00 then all 110v drills,grinders,sanders etc as well as fluk multi meters. You see the other thing you have to balance is cost with a good supplier and a good procurement officer you should be able to strike a good deal and huge discounts because of the amount you buy and turnover if you want any tips email kencccok@aol.com
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#18 Posted : 07 February 2005 16:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Oliver Are your staff direct employees or sub-contract labour? If you sub-contract work out for maintenance purposes then you would expect the tradesmen to supply all their own tools. In this respect you would ask to see copies of recent PAT records and visual inspection checklists. regular audits can be used to inspect tools for defects, where defects are identifed then the tool should be removed from service. However if your maintenance staff are direct employees then you will have to suppy suitable work equipment, with all of the above still applying with regards to visual inspection prior to use and PAT at suitable intervals accoring to the working environment. I would also recommend that all electrical tools are a min 110v. Paul
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