Posted By Bill Elliott Going through the process at present. Interestingly it appears that from the information provided through the early implementer sites - there is not a generic banding for H&S advisors (now there 's a surprise) yet there is one for Fire Safety Advisors - and it is ridiculously graded very low. Would be interested in anything you come across though.

Posted By Derek Gibson We, at City Hospitals Sunderland have been job evaluated from filling in a 38 page job analysis questionaire and this is quite a task in itself. Our role is a dual role working as both Health & Safety Officers and Fire Safety Officers at a number of hospitals, health centres and residential care homes. To say we are disappointed with the outcome is an understatement as we have been evaluated as Band 5 (345 points). Since filling in the questionaire it has subsequently come to light that the terminology used when describing your duties and reponsibilities is the key to it all as apparently the data is fed into a computer to evaluate the points scored. We are however submitting a request for a review. It would be helpful to know if any other Safety Professionals at a similar level have been banded as yet.

Posted By Kathy Smith Im a Head of H&S/Risk and MIOSH working in the ambulance service and, like you, my team and I are going through the process at the moment. I have just completed the (extremely long!!) JAQ. I belong to the national ambulance risk and safety forum where this issue has been discussed at length. Some of my colleagues at early implementer sites are very unhappy at the outcome of their pay bands. We are hopeful that our national HS&Risk Coordinator (who works for the Ambulance Service Association) can develop a national profile for a H&S Advisor/Manager, however this may take some time and it may not be accepted by the A4C 'powers that be'. We'll see. I am also a member of the IOSH Healthcare Specialist Group and we have discussed this issue there as well. We sent a letter to all Chief Executives of NHS Trusts to highlight the importance of the H&S professional within NHS Trusts at the time of the A4C job matching and evaluation process - asking them to bring the letter to the attention of their A4C leads (the letter was better worded than that but you get the gist). I am not sure what effect this had within individual trusts. If anyone wants me to put their views (polite and constructive please) forward at our next SG meeting then let me know.

Posted By J Knight Deepest sympathies to everybody going through this. As a charity which works in support of the NHS we've had to go through this, but fortunately it's been limited to those people who work for our healthcare directorate. As an HR person serving the whole charity I'm exempt and have a good manager who understand and value my role. However, in my previous job I just got stuck in a Hay band and no amount of appeals to reason (I mean, the training managers got paid more than us and we were all trainers in any case) could shift the powers that be. One thing to reflect on is that if the robots making the decisions are hopelessly wrong then you can go elsewhere; if the NHS won't pay the market rate other people (such as charities for example) certainly will, John

Posted By Derek Gibson It is my personal opinion and anyone connected with Agenda for Change will no doubt disagree, but I feel that the NHS knows what price it wants to pay for any service. The NHS will therefore appoint personnel based on their price plan even if this makes it an uncompetetive employer in the jobs market other than medical or clinical posts. It is very disappointing as I enjoy working in the NHS as my work is varied as I deal with both health & safety and fire safety but like many other safety professionals I may have to re-evaluate my position in the future for all the wrong reasons, one of which is being undervalued in a Band 5.

Posted By Denis We too are being bombarded with the process! I have just received a JAQ to be filled in, it's probably my own fault for not having taken any notice of AFC before this but the task of filling out the JAQ seems enormous when you think that your future livlihood within the organisation rests soley on this incredibly long document. I feel i now have to give a lot of time to this task which as most of you will be in the same boat is time better spent elsewhere.