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#1 Posted : 14 February 2005 19:52:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Hamilton I am currently involved with a group looking at risk assessments for children undertaking work experience when aged 15-16 (i.e. below MSLA). This involves working with both placement providers and schools. A hot topic at the moment is "work at height". (or do I mean falling from height?). We are pretty certain that we have a good idea of the various bits of legislation, the different levels of risk posed by various access equipment and the importance of adult supervision in any child placement. What we do not have is any wide practical experience of how a "working H&S person" has/would decide in the workplace. Is it ever acceptable to allow a child to "work at height"? (e.g go onto a scaffold, use a stepladder, use a mobile stairway) Therefore, what would be most helpful for us in our current review would be some practical experience of how you may have considered any such application in your work. Just some simple stuff like definite no-nos, possibles, OK with supervision would be great. Also are there are any insurance company risk guys out there who feel able to comment from an insurers view? Your responses will help us to keep the kids safe but not "too safe" that all they learn is that H&S is something that just stops you doing things.
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#2 Posted : 15 February 2005 10:11:00(UTC)
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Posted By George Wedgwood Basically, children cannot 'work at height' because it is illegal for them to 'be at work'. however, the new (draft) Regulations contain principles which may serve may in the childcare arena well, as I am sure some centres will have equipment that must be safe for them to use and risk assessment is great for identifying any design risks or possible equipment defects. How high? Well , that's a good point and if a kiddy gets up onto a structure, wherever it is, there is a risk of falling and injury unless the structure is adequately guarded and access/egress is safe. By adequately guarded, I mean taking account of barriers that will not allow a child to fall through. Hence a 'standard' scaffold would not be a safe place for a child as the barriers are too far apart for their safety (~500 mm apart). You could fit extra guard rails but the best advice may come from Building regulations, which takes account of access on stairs etc. by children - that's why bannister spindles must be 100 mm apart max - so a child's head cannot go through. Good Thread! Regards, George
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#3 Posted : 15 February 2005 19:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeff Manion Have somthing that may assist send e-mail direct. Jeff Manion
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#4 Posted : 15 February 2005 21:12:00(UTC)
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Posted By steven bentham What a good question. One view: Children should not be let out on live construction sites - thats what the 6' fence is for to keep them out. Second view: Children as part of their work experience may experience some construction work and work at heights, but you will need them inducted, fully supervised, and fully kited out. Third view: If they do work at height is it better from a fully inspected scaffolding rather than step ladders or tower scaffolds? Fourth view: If teachers are worried about taking children on school trips and facing manslaughter charges they should be 'bricking it' let kids work at heights, which is still a significant killer of workers. Personal view: My oldest kid is in construction and my yougest will leave school and go into construction at 15 years of age. Professional view: If kids experience work at height it better be very safe and in a very safe environment or you should buy some legal protection insurance to pay your legal bills. Or check it out with your local inspector!!!
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#5 Posted : 16 February 2005 10:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Peter, Look at the guidance to the management regs on this one, as well as WAH regs. The management regs set out specific requirements for risk assessment in any workplace employing children; since this is anybody under compulsory school leaving age they are allowed to be in employment. One of the requirements is that children cannot work in any process or operation where there are uncontrolled significant risks following risk assessment, even if it is necessary for their training. This would certainly have a bearing on their use of access equipment, John
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#6 Posted : 16 February 2005 22:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Pope Hi In drama education they may have to adjust the lights - towers and tallascopes are used for this under supervision. Nothing wrong with that.
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#7 Posted : 16 February 2005 22:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Neil Stephens Some general guidance in HSG 165. Also worth noting that while on placement the young person will be considered an employee of the host for health and safety purposes and therefore they must conduct an appropriate risk assessment taking into account the YPs age, lack of maturity and experience.
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#8 Posted : 17 February 2005 00:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Murgatroyd http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg364.pdf
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#9 Posted : 17 February 2005 10:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Peter Hamilton Hello again everyone, many thanks to those that responded to my original post, some useful stuff there. I perhaps did not explain clearly that what I was looking for was actual experience of applying the guidance as a means of benchmarking our work. There must be someone out there who has actually had to carry out the required risk assessments for work experience placements in their business/industry (or do you just prohibit it??). Once again, thanks for the interest, Peter
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