Posted By PaulA We operate large helicopters in Iraq in view of both mortar, snipers and civ population.... We dress in sand camourflage and carry flack jackets , helmets and body armour.... Our command (bosses) have dictated that in the interests of HEALTH AND SAFETY that working on the aircraft we will wear DAYGLO ...... YES...... HIGH VIS VESTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...... For the love of GOD!!! Having spent £6000 on H&S qualifications in the last couple of years to help me and others stay safe at work!! this is beyond belief!! Is this just me being sensitive???????????????? Regards Paul (normal email not available to dist.. sorry) ps this is not Mark Smarts brother in law as you may wish to think!

Posted By George Wedgwood It's a familiar tune as it applies to many other aspects of working life - missiles don't just fly in Iraq! It's all about sensible risk assessment and if you present a written one to the boss, he will nearly always be very unwise to reject it out of hand. properly prioritised and costed (notionally if necessary), he should have several options on the control measures he finally chooses and you should have a specific that does the job, with no 'over control'. They will buy it and respect you for it. Just looking at the issue prima facie does not induce anything other than emotion - as you have managed to do - as, though your case seems sound for not wearing hi-viz, is there another control measure that might reduce risk? Do snipers really focus on workers in hi-viz - what are the figures? In the end, it is about comparing one risk against the other and working to a compromise that will achieve on the job safety as well as not placing yourself visibly in the firing line - which you are anyway to a high power rifle, are you not? Perhaps the primary risk control has been to eliminate the possibility of enemy fire? Try writing it all down and they look at it again and let us see what comes of it. Good luck! George

Posted By Rob T Hi Paul, I have been to Iraq (12 different cities in the south and central areas) on three occasions over the last 18 months. My area of expertise was for risk management and assessment visits before deployment of engineers etc. If you want to chat through some of the issues here (I can't believe the idiot who suggested making people stand out from the crowd - get him to stand about wearing a hi-vis jerkin when in sniper range!!!) please e-mail me. I am due out again soon and I would be intrigued to find out who and why this decision has been made. Rob

Posted By Stuart Nagle PaulA. Some suggestions and thoughts: 1) Flack jackets will not stop a round from a sniper! and offer only limited protection against shrapnel from exploding mortar rounds. 2) High-vis (Dayglow Saturn Yellow) could be applied to the pan captains paddles rather than insisting on wearing a high-vis waistcoat (But this is already probably employed is it not?), besides this, do you not use light sticks at night!! A 'dead' givaway..... forgive the pun... 3) Fencing could be screened with para-web as this would reasonably prevent anyone hiding behind it but would offer some degree of obscurity of the helo pans, but by far the most efficient method is to build sand baums around the helo pads - inside the wire.... however this may need additional protection either through slazzer wire fencing (secured with pins) or airfield defence boxes that are manned.... unless there are already suitable positions in place? 4) When helos land in the desert on ops, is there a handy arab in high-vis to guide em in? 5) The MoD still likes to apply UK (Defence Estates and Military JSP H&S) Standards in all operational theatres, so if the old man insists on doing it, you can guess that theres a civvy in the background stating the mandatory guidance note tucked away in the files somewhere must be followed.... 6) If your worried about snipers in particular, you could always adopt the high-vis helmet covers, snipers much prefer to aim at the upper torso as a head shot is difficult and less chance of a kill - once they fire their position is sought, so they will always go for a potentially larger target than a small one (unless of course they actually have long barrelled scoped sniper rifles!!) and finally... remember that the Kalashikov is not an effecttive sniper weapon. With its loose mechanism and jerky action, anything over 450 metres is hit more by luck than by judgement... Happy landings.... Stuart

Posted By DougieGeorge Right, sit up,sharpen up and LISTEN IN! General Marksmark-St John-Winker-Totally Befuddled-Smythe MBE CBE MFI KNOB here. My cousin who uses this site - he's an expert you know - told me about this damned good idea about bright new uniforms. In my early military days, my boys used to wear bright red coats with shiny buttons - lovely they were. Enemy could see they coming over a mile away. Then some damned idiot at the War Office changed the colour to that damnable khaki just before WW1 - damned unfair as harder for the enemy to see them. I had to line up my troops by the thousand as I sent them over the top towards the barbed wire, just so the enemy could get time to shoot them. That was when I first saw those flier boy chappies - they are not a real service you know - more like a hobby. Flying those new fangled plane things - Gypsy Moths they were called. And the uniform they wore- what sort of colour is crab blue? About time they were given something a bit more lively and brighter. Damnable new camouflaged uniforms - not in my time - woffle - woffle...... zzzzzzzz Oh - where was I - yawn - oh yes bright uniforms. My cousin's an expert you know, loads of qualifications , he says. Spiffin, absolutely spiffin. He was once in the same room as someone with one of those NEBOSH thingy certificates so he knows all about this safety business. He even tells those HSE chappies what to do. He's away at the moment abroad, somewhere hot (don't tell anyone but its all pretty hush hush and all that). He'll be given out some damnable fine advice - he's an expert you know. So, that's that's, no more arguing - bright uniforms it shall be. Now, where's my bath-chair? Jeeves, Jeeves, where are you?? And bring me a G & T, there's a good chap. . . . . zzzzzzzzzzz