Posted By GeoffB A client works on constructions sites using heavy plant. For some tasks they hire a driver/s and a vehicle/s (could be a roller, 360 digger, dumper etc). The drivers and vehicles are hired from companies who specialise in hiring out drivers and vehicles. I have indicated to the client that, whilst they should treat the driver as one of their own on site, they should also obtain H&S documentation from the hire company. This should include a H&S Policy, Risk Assessments, vehicle documentation, driver license and statutory inspection certificates. The two hire companies they deal with have immediately refused to supply risk assessments (but OK with the rest of the documentation). They are saying that the relationship between my client and their driver (and vehicle) is one of employee and employer. And it is not their responsibility to provide risk assessments. In effect they are saying this is not a sub- contractor arrangement. Anybody got any ideas of how I can dissuade them from this and wring the risk assessments out of them. Geoff

Posted By Andrew Cartridge Geoff I must agree with Philip, the only RA you may get from the plant supplier will relate to the safe operating procedure of the machine as a standalone unit. How can the plant company give a RA on a specific situation that is normally out of their control. Surely, this should be carried out on the site, & by the responsible person. Regards Andy

Posted By GeoffB I think my crucial paragraph is: I have indicated to the client that, whilst they should treat the driver as one of their own on site, they should also obtain H&S documentation from the hire company. This should include a H&S Policy, Risk Assessments, vehicle documentation, driver license and statutory inspection certificates. It is accepted that the client takes over responsibility when on site - hence the statement 'as one of their own'. My question is about what whether or not a risk assessment should have been provided prior to working on site.

Posted By Martyn Hendrie For as long as I can remember non-operated plant (where the contractor provides his own driver) and operated plant (where the driver comes with the machine) has been hired under CPA (Contractors Plant Association) Conditions. CPA conditions require the operator to be considered as the employee (servant) of the contractor hiring the plant (the master) and as such are responsible for the risk assessment for the work the equipment carries out. The hire companies responsibilities are to provide a machine that; complies with all legal requirements; is well maintained and fit to the purposes set out in the machine/operators manual. They are also responsible for ensuring that the operator they provide is competent to operate the machine safely. Plant hire companies should provide details of their H&S Policy; inspection/maintenance regimes and certification documentation including drivers competence. I think the hire companies may be taking issue with your use of the term "risk assessment"