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#1 Posted : 21 February 2005 15:19:00(UTC)
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Posted By Julie Whitby I would like some advice to a problem that has arisen, we have 2 joiners who will attend an induction meeting on site but refuse to sign the induction form, where does that leave us. Thanks Julie
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#2 Posted : 21 February 2005 15:25:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete Moran It leaves them in the position of not being allowed to start work. If they have an accident you have no means of proving that you made any attempt to provide them with information. What exactly is their gripe with signing?
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#3 Posted : 21 February 2005 15:34:00(UTC)
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Posted By Stephen_S_Edwards Without trying to seem crass, I would replace them with 2 joiners who will sign the Induction register. I have come across this before. The people I had the problem with were refusing to sign for an induction because they believed that they were waiving their right to sue if an accident were to occur. Once I explained that it was merely a training tool, to familiarise everyone with the safety arrangements on the project, they agreed to sign........what gives?!?
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#4 Posted : 21 February 2005 15:54:00(UTC)
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Posted By Allan St.John Holt It leaves them out of a job and you still looking. Hopefully they just don't understand what it's all about. Allan
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#5 Posted : 21 February 2005 16:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gerry Knowles It leaves you ok. You just have to find a couple of joiners who understand that: No Hat No Boots No HiVis No Sign Really does mean NO JOB Gerry Knowles
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#6 Posted : 21 February 2005 22:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By David S Burt Julie, I feel that you need to find out exactly why they will not sign, it could be that they have a literacy problem. Now if this is the case and you follow the advice already given, your organisation could find itself liable for a claim of discrimination. Just a thought
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#7 Posted : 22 February 2005 08:21:00(UTC)
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Posted By Martyn Hendrie An alternative if the employees won't sign for their induction (but you still want/need them) is for them to retake the induction, this time in the presence of an independent witness. The witness could sign off that they had received the induction and refused to sign the acknowledgement when requested. Good practice requires that employees sign for inductions.etc. The law simply requires that they receive the appropriate information, instruction and training in a comprehensible way. Hope this helps
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#8 Posted : 22 February 2005 09:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Tom Clark Surely there's too much emphasis on getting signatures. If records are properly kept, these must include an additional note about the refusal to sign. If evidence is needed at a later date in a claims case etc., it can be brought forward that the employee refused to sign. The employee would then be obliged to admit to taking part in training or face perjury charges. Just a thought as additional back-up - Why not take a group photo and include it with the records. If an external instructor is used you have your third party witness. Another ploy you could use (if you feel you must) is - no signature - no record of attendance - no pay. Good luck Tom
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#9 Posted : 22 February 2005 09:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Turner I think the real issue lies with the reasoning behid the refusal. Getting it witnessed is a compromise, however what conerns me with this is the attitude of such persons who refuse to co-operate. They may give further problems later.
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#10 Posted : 15 March 2005 23:07:00(UTC)
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Posted By ernie luney surely a police officer and a hse inspector are the only people who have a legal right to ask and get a signature .what are the induction course contents?
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#11 Posted : 16 March 2005 09:42:00(UTC)
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Posted By David A Jones They may be refusing to sign because they don't think the induction was adeqaute. for example they may think that the risks and associated control measures have not be explained such they understand the requirements.
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#12 Posted : 16 March 2005 10:31:00(UTC)
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Posted By Mark Talbot I agree that signatures are not required, the person giving the training should merely attest that they were present and what the training was. I also however agree that this may be a syptom of other issues now or later. It certainly requires a one-to-one interview with yourself to see what's up. You would of course need to make it very clear to them that they will be subject to exceptional scrutiny to ensure that they have understood the induction material. Witholding pay might get you into other troubles and is not worth it.
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#13 Posted : 16 March 2005 10:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By Phil.D.Baptiste Julie, Alternatively.... run the induction again BUT, get them to sign the pre-start course register....then you have your record of attendance....this does not, however, stand as a record that they understood. In which case you will need to evidence that the form of instruction, and all associated material, was suitable for the target audience....literate or not....the best way to acheive this is practical demonstration Philby
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#14 Posted : 16 March 2005 15:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Pete Moran Surely the purpose of any induction is to provide information so that work can be carried out safely........without confirmation from the delegate that he/she has attended the induction including reading and understanding the contents of the induction then an employer is very exposed should an accident occur.
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#15 Posted : 17 March 2005 12:39:00(UTC)
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Posted By Gareth Bryan Just a thought, can they read and write?
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#16 Posted : 17 March 2005 13:27:00(UTC)
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Posted By Iain W Julie, Having done inductions for many years I have been lucky enough not to have this problem, but I would agree with many of the postings so far that ask why they refuse to sign the induction form. If they have a legitimate reason then fine, another way to aknowledge that the training has been done can be looked at, but if it is simply stubborness, then I think your company should think what type of person they want to employ - This would ring alarm bells that they are not team players and how they will comply with other basic safety rules once they are actually working in the workplace This should be the honeymoon period for them. Try to explain that they are simply required to sign it to acknowledge they have had the training and because it is a requirement incase the company is audited by external auditors ie for accreditation purposes etc. if applicable
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#17 Posted : 17 March 2005 15:18:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robin B I agree with Tom. There is too much stress placed on signatures. We have to be sure that whoever is getting the induction has understood the content. I heard of one case where the victim was asked if he'd signed for training which he had but he then said that he hadn't understood it - he won his case. Robin B
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