Posted By Merv Newman Aishling, I could, and do, argue this one for hours. Just to get it out of the way quickly, BS8800 was replaced by OHSAS 18000 which was supposed to be eventually replaced by an "ISO 18000". This will not now happen. Too much politics in the way. And OSHAS 18000 is pretty good and compatible with ISO 14000 systems. Second point : an SMS by itself is useless. Research on safety culture (and I can give you the references) indicates that there are three main areas to be adressed in building a safety culture ; 1. SMS - whichever one you fancy this week 2. Technical safety - Getting the working conditions, machines, methods and equipment at the very least in conformity with the law of the land 3. Behavioural safety - motivating managers and employees to WANT to work safely. AND, to develop a good safety culture you need to keep these three elements in balance, working on all three simultaneously, developing the upward continuous improvement spiral recommended in OHSAS 18000, using continuously improving objectives. This process is different from that in ISO 9000 systems which propose setting a target, getting to it, and then maintaining that position. Discuss Merv (trust me) Newman

Posted By Sylvia Tyler An SMS is vital - it doesn't matter what standard it is based on. I have recently been successful in getting our company certification for 18001 - but Merv is right (he'll like that) without everything else an SMS is nothing. I'm going to have a harder time keeping the certification as the human factors and managements' committment to the SMS is not as it should be. But the best SMS in the world won't work without management support, training, auditing and most important implementation!! Management like the 18001 certificate for marketing purposes - but don't appreciate the hard work of the safety team who have to get it accepted and used. SMS's should help to make a safe workplace, but equally they are used for mitigation when things go wrong - this seems when the company appreciates them most in my experience. Before you ever think of an SMS get the support of the management whereever you may work. Sorr - can you tell I'm not getting the support from my management at the moment!!! Regards Sylvia

Posted By Ian Waldram I support most of what's been said above. The free IOSH Technical Guidance "Systems in Focus" both shows how the various standards you mention are very similar, and also gives loads of practical tips for getting started. HSG65 also contains lots of good advice, but is (probably deliberately) written in a way that makes it very difficult to use as a standard against which to review a detailed SMS. Also Merv's a little out of date re BS8800 - a new and extended edition was published autumn 2004 and BS18001 hasn't yet been pdated to include that (e.g. good appendix on how to get to root causes of accidents, drafted by IOSH Director of Techncial Affairs). BSI have told me the updating may take some time, as it's a different (non-commercial) part of BSI that published 8800 and the 18001 managing group have slightly different issues to consider!

Posted By Aishling Mannion Thanks, its great to hear such responses. Merv, could you give me those references about safety culture?? Would really appreciate it! And while I'm here, whats the view on integration of management systems?

Posted By Merv Newman so long as the packaging and labelling conforms to iata regulations for liquid substances of low to negligible toxicity, it should be ok. Or I may just send you a postal order. Merv