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Posted By Chrisopher Gilbert
I recently got asked to carry out some risk assessments by a group of bell ringers following a minor accident during essential bell maintenance. I've no problems with that, provided that the assessments provide a genuine benefit in identifying and controlling the risks.
However, how far should we go with control of hobbies? Should we have safety policies for groups? What is the legal position regarding health and safety law and such ammatur group?
Any comment and advice on the above would be very welcome.
Chris Gilbert - a student of health and safety
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Posted By Len Newman
I am completing a risk assessment for the bell ringers also.
Send me an e-mail, so we may be able to help each other.
Thanks
Len
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Posted By Robert Paterson Hi to you both (Chris and Len) I have came up with a good website on Church and places of Worship Safety http://www.churchsafety.org.uk/You might find some information there. Kind Regards Robert Paterson
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Posted By Gerry Knowles
I was interested to see that a couple of people had been asked to complete risk assessments for bell ringers.
Recently I have been doing some work for my church (unpaid). The interesting piece being that the vicar and the PPC feel that the church is a place of business and after some thought feel the same way. They do employ a large number of people gardners, bell ringers, organists, cleaners and flower arrangers to name but a few. In addition a large number of groups come onto the site to carry out, grave diggers, maintenance people, window cleaners, undertakers. fuel oil delivery men etc.
There are also the public to consider they come to services, attend to graves, walk through the site and some are there for other activities.
I guess the point is that bell ringing is not the "hobby" that it first apppears. If a bell ringer was injured or worse when ringing for a church service they could well be seen as being "at work" there then may well be a criminal or civil case to answer and the church would be asked for its risk assessment and other relevant documentation.
I would welcome comments
Gerry Knowles
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Posted By Chrisopher Gilbert
Gerry,
The church can, of course, be classified as an employer. With respect to bell ringing, the ringers, rather than the church are normally in control of their "work" - a bit like being a contractor. It's more often the effect the ringers work will have on themselves and others, than what effect the church "employer" will have on the ringers.
It would be plausable for a heavy handed PCC, woried about the churches repsonsibility to call a halt to ringing as a result of a lack of facts.
Ringers need knowlageable safety professionals amongst their ranks to actively promote the safety side of ringing and its associated activities.
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Posted By Stephen D. Clarke
I'm a bell ringer and H&S advisor and to add to the above comments we get paid for ringing at weddings.
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Posted By Mark Talbot
I am just at a similar point with another, very different hobby. We are certainly not employees [unlike the bell ringers and other classes of people mentioned].
It is important to us not to be subject of the HSAW 74 as it would cripple our activities - but that doesn't reduce the need for risk assessments if we want to lessen the risks of injury to our membership.
Doing a risk assessment should not, however, be able to change hundreds of years of history... there are not enough injuries to warrant the cesation of all bell ringing.
One of our biggest credibility problems at the moment is some people's imagination of doom! By helping them with the risk assessment, you have lessened the risk to ringers and profession alike.
Well done.
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Posted By Nicholas Williams
Things can get serious. My brother is a vicar at Romsey, Hants. During one of his weddings, the choir was joined by many sirens as the local Fire Brigade arrived and proceeded to cut a hole in the side of the Norman Tower to extricate one of the bell-ringers who had hurt herself and could not be brought down the spiral stairs!
One to remember as he said to the congregation!!
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Posted By Stuart Nagle
As an interesting note, I seem to gather from the postings that some are leaning towards the bell ringers being voluntary, and or 'in charge' of their own business (e.g. the camponology). However, I am reminded of a case some years ago now where part of sea wall collapsed on and seriously injured or killed 'volunteers' who were assisting as part of a Prince of Wales Award Scheme to repair/reinstate and generally tidy up the sea front of a small town.
Although they were volunteers, the organisation enlisting the volunteers was found guilty of H&S breaches, no risk assessments, no safe systems of work and other issues.
Whilst the bellringers may be volunteers, I am sure that the organisation operating the facility (the church) will have responsibility for their health, safety and welfare whilst on the premises, whether or not acting on behalf of the church or simply using a church facility (e.g. a church hall) for practice... In addition of course, if the Church has any employees they will need to comply with relevant H&S requirements...
Regards...
Stuart
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