Posted By Pat Burns MIOSH, RSP - SpDipEM - AMIQA Obviously Bill has never tried to get a reasonable answer from the HSE over the telephone. They never commit themselves to anything other than you must do a risk assessment. I would like to hear of anyone else's findings when they phoned the HSE for advice. Did you get any? or were you fobbed off.

Posted By Merv Newman Sorry steve, but a lot of people can't work it out for themselves. They do need a source of advice, they don't have any kind of knowledge of H&S and don't know where to find it. HSE is the obvious first place to turn to. I will agree that inspectors are overworked, but they should at least try to help the little man or woman who ASKS for it. At least they are trying to get it right. Maybe our "caring community" government will pay for a hot line. (do I hear santa chortling or is it just the easter bunny having a turn)

Posted By Laurie I have had many contacts with HSE over the years, both initiated by me and initiated by them, including no-notice visits following anonymous complaints. I have always found that they will bend over backwards to be helpful, and always far more interested in the job, keeping my workforce safe and healthy, than in just presenting me with a list of shortcomings (and believe me, there have been some!). If the LA inspectors I have met were even 1% as helpful I would have had a much less stressful career! Now before all the LA people start responding, I am only one individual, in one area, and I am well aware that there are many thousands of LA inspectors out there who are just as pleasant and helpful, indeed many of them are regular contributors to this forum. It's just that the ones I have met professionally have been, almost without exeception, officious little jobsworths who will go out of their way to be nasty. To give just one example; on one occasion I was accompanying one such around my site. While we watched a delivery driver dumped a delivery in a fire exit, and while the inspector continued watching I went over and told the driver to move it, which he did. On the inspection report I was cited for that blocked fire exit! I'll take a dozen HSE checks over one LA visit! Laurie

Posted By Raymond Rapp Obviously from the responses thus far there is a mixed bag of opinions regarding the helpfulness of the HSE. Without knowing their resources it would probably be unfair to comment, but in my experience the HSE have been less than proactive. The best example I can give is from a few years ago when I was completing the TUC h&s certificate course (NVQ 3). During the course the facilitator asked the h&s reps if they would like a visit from a HSE inspector. There were some negative and positive comments, but in the end the class decided to take a vote. The vote went against a visit. Pretty damning I would have thought. Ray

Posted By Raymond Rapp It's a fair point you make Steve. I did say in my comments that without knowing the actual resources of the HSE it would be unfair to comment. But I don't think you should take it too personally. After all, we are all subject to certain criticisms, constructive or otherwise. Ray

Posted By Alan Osborne The vast majority of HSE inspectors want to do a good job and are generally very committed people. Many of them work very long hours and as a number of people have said the pay isn't brilliant. As a generality though I do wish our institution would stop awarding honoury vice-president roles to ex-HSE top brass - I'm not even sure of the objective of doing this. I'd actually much prefer to bring on board a few inspectors so that we can have the benefit of their grass roots experience. I very much agree with Steve Bentham's comments though. I was an HSE board member until the end of 2003 and it was the policy dimension which made me throw the towel in. I do hope though that we all make use of the telephone numbers provided by Bill as it is an excellent opportunity for us all. Rest assured if the telephone numbers are hardly used it will be used as an example of success by them. Alan Osborne

Posted By Merv Newman WE know that there is a "huge amount of material out there" but I feel that the average small business 1) doesn't know where to find it, 2) Would have great difficulty in translating it into practical terms that suit their circumstances and 3) is not really motivated to do so "I've got a business to run". And here I'm thinking of the 1 to 5 people businesses in particular. "you have to do risk assessments (yeah, but will someone please tell me how ? Sorry, you must have access to a competent person who will advise you), but you don't have to keep written records". Oh, that's ok then, if anyone asks I'll just say I did 'em. I know that [reference removed] are overworked, maybe even underpaid, but I will not accept blanket statements such as "they are a fine body of men, always trying to do their best". Come off it, are there no human beings working in the HSE ? (some say yes, some say no)

Posted By Stephen D. Clarke Hi, My personnel experience of HSE's helpfulness is very varied. About 10 years ago when I was first given safety responsibility, working for an electrical engineering multinational, I would frequently phone HSE and the practical advice I received was always really first rate. However in the last 2 or 3 years, working now for a local authority, whenever I've asked for help it hasn't really been much good and invariably ends with the throw away comment do your risk assessment. My perception is that the people I speak to now haven't the experience necessary to provide good practical advice, whereas 10 years ago telephone advice always came from an experienced person.

Posted By Ron Hunter Geoff: My point being that I disagree with the suggestion that the Inspectorate should be acting as the 'one stop shop' for health and safety advice. Others on the thread, whilst acknowledging the amount of info out there, seem to want to "short-cut" to calling the HSE. I don't believe that should be their function. I do accept there will be instances of specific technical detail where clarification from the 'source' might be required. (In these circumstances, it is not always easy to find an Inspector with the specific knowledge or expertise.) I would rather that all businesses (even the small ones) were encouraged to join /subscribe to relevant trade associations wherever possible. I suggest that any national telephone helpline is probably going to be very limited in the answers it can give, most likely a raft of FAQs, + referring callers to 'free leaflet' section of hse.gov.uk

Posted By terry mallard Well what can i say-as a LA H & S Inspector and safety professional, I have not yet read the article but i recently attended a conference at which Bill Callaghan recently spoke. It has been acknowledged that within both the HSE and LA there was the need for a review of the work we do and the way we do it (HSE to LA and LA to LA). I ( as as safety prof) acknowledge that that there may have been differences between the standards of LA and HSE but i think you will and should find ( and not only read-but see) the way we are changing to improve our service. I cannot speak for every LA but thats the drive thats taking place. I intend to be apart of the solution ( i am sure along with my fellow LA and HSE inspectors). We are going to be working more and more together now in partnership-as a inspector of several years now i believe this is the way forward-better use of resources, skills, knowledge and locations. Thought i would get that off my chest. We will be targetting higher risk activities between us-to get the numbers of deaths, accidents and ill health in key areas down- no longer full inspections but topic based. The future is bright-the future is orange-see us enforcers do have a sense of humour-oh and knowledge on the appliaction of the law-oh and and keen to help those who want help and assistance-oh but also keen to enforce those who do nothing-he he he. Sorry i went off the track but i could see alot of negative comments about LA and HSE inspectors. I would like to point out that the above comments are mine as both a Safety prof and enforcer-and that alot of work has gone and is still going on by the peeps in central control to sort this situation out-not my comments but the way we work-peace

Posted By Ken Taylor Whilst there may be truth in Bill's comment about firms taking the easy option and paying out on claims, I have noted a tendency for insurers to settle claims below an amount worth defending in the knowledge that they can simply recoup the loss through increased premiums. I am convinced that this is also 'fuelling' additional claims and consequently increased risk aversion.

Posted By terry mallard Pat, I spend as much time as I possibly can of my week giving advice and help to employers. I get great pleasure in helping duty holders comply with the law (so far as is reasonably practicable) etc etc. I think industry is convinced that we just spend out time telling people whats wrong and waving the big stick. We ( us in LA and HSE) recognise that education is a big key to getting the message across. I enjoy health & safety at work isssues as both a LA regulator and a Safety Prof. I agree with some of the previous comments about training difference between LA and HSE inspectors. I am sure there is good and bad in both regulator and adviser