Posted By Bill Fisher Five years ago I posted a question on this topic. Whilst the overall death rate has reduced slightly, the industry is still killing too many people. With the consultation on CDM and CHSW Regs due to commence on the 4th April, my question is a simple one with, I suspect a more complex answer and would like to see a catalogue of suggestions developed here. "What can be done to stop the continued trend of death (and indeed create a downward trend) on construction sites?" Regards Bill

Posted By James M Bill The industry is in need of a good shake up. Until we get apprentices reintroduced and confirm that all personnel working on sites are properly trained to do the trade that is required of them on site the problem will not decrease. Workers that are ‘’on a price’’ will not bother with health and safety. This is a simple fact from my years of experience. The industry is purely profit driven apart from a few big players; most will not worry about the safety of the guys doing the job. (unless they have been to court and hit with a heavy fine) How many site supervisors do you know that have adequate man management experience? Very few. All they know is to order in materials and make sure time sheets are faxed off. However I did come across a good system last week from a Kiwi site manager. He was fed up of just telling the guys to correct the action and when he went round the corner they had gone back to their old ways. Now he makes them stop work, pack up their tools and take them to the site office. The supervisor must then come and interview them and find out why they weren’t working correctly. This can take a while if the supervisor is not on site. Once he is satisfied the site operative can return to work. However, how many other site managers would do the same? How many others would know what was wrong in the first place and how many would be bothered to even tell the person to correct the action. The fact of the matter is that he should not need to do this off his own back if correct systems were in place. I think that house builders are 10 years behind most commercial premises construction managers. They are the people that need the biggest kick up the a**e. I was talking to two QS ladies recently. One who is half way through her training and one who recently qualified. Neither did nor will do any health and safety on the degree course. Get the cheapest price and run the risk of poor workmanship and high accident rates. That is what they do and will continue to do until told about the false economy it involves. Until the people at the top get their house in order this problem will not go away. Either introduce better trained personnel with adequate time to do the task or increase penalties if you get it wrong. Only then will Directors sit up and listen.

Posted By Chris Black This is a bit pie in the sky. I would pass legislation stating that a range of duty-holders (site managers, site foremen, QS, designers and senior sub-contractors reps) need to attend a specified safety awareness course at a specified frquency in order to qualify for a ticket to do their job. I would also force any organisation that spends more than £20,000 per year on CDM projects to appoint a competent person who has received basic and refresher training on discharging the clients duties under CDM or whatever follows. I would make it mandatory for facilities management. Every planning application requiring work at height or more than 1 day of mobile plant operations should be accompanied by a cheque to cover the cost of two visits by specialist HSE construction inspectors, one to look at submitted drawings and one for a site visit. Subsequent visits would be carried out until breaches are tracked to completion and the cost borne by the developer or client. The revenue raised would pay for additional HSE staff.

Posted By Iain W You are right Bill, there are too many needless deaths. There are still deaths in our industry too, however latest stats suggest this falling. In the offshore industry we operate many different types of behavioural based programs. Safety audits are not the only tools available and simply going to sites and carrying out audits or unannounced safety inspections do not get to the bottom of why unsafe acts are committed or unsafe conditions exist, simply because the inspection and audits done generally only concentrate on physical things or failures to comply with legal requirements and not peoples behaviour Yes it is still essential, to identify unsafe conditions, legal failings etc however what they have to ask is how these situations have arisen, and for that in most cases it will be down to something that someone has / has not done. For instance, the scaffold that has no toeboards or proper access didn't build itself like that, or that man working at height with no fall arrest equipment on - nobody dragged him up a height and made him work without it. Fine to point out these problems but they have to ask the people what their motivation was for the particular unsafe act or leaving something in an unsafe condition I believe the key to reducing incidents is to change peoples perception of risk and attitude, and that needs to start from the top of the tree and be developed throughout the company down to the workforce. "the lowest standard set by management will be the highest attained by the workforce" - unless the dinosaurs of the industry who still don't recognise safety is equal to quality, cost morale and production shake up their act, then the deaths will continue. Safety equal to, because if there are any incidents there will be varying effects on the other considerations. I wonder just how many construction site managers sit down with workers and go through or develop risk assessment with the workers, maybe the main contractors have to involve the subbies etc more in the RA process so that they feel they have some involvement, carry out pre job talks and document them (toolbox talks, Oh and please don't all shout at once, I understand there are some good managers as well as bad, I don't mean to tar everyone with the same brush) My view, and it may not be a popular one when you talk about the commericial and financial impact and ease of finding replacements at short notice, is that the industry leaders need to show some sort of solidarity here (I recognise there are different schemes with union and government backing etc on the go now) and where there is a problem on sites where a sub contractor etc is not adhering to either the main contractors safety standards or legal requirements then they should be put off the site without question, or supply personnel more willing to work safely. This needs to be conveyed strongly to prospective contractors at the pre selection stage. I work in an industry that is full of "rufty tufty" contractors too, and so know how hard it can be to get them to tow the line on safety, however it is not impossible to achieve At least there is acknowledgement that there is a problem, they just need to act to address it and not simply talk about it. Don't know if this helps the discussion much but hopefully it does. Iain

Posted By Tom A Bradley Hello Bill The HSE have started a 'Construction Discussion Forum' looking at the very topics covered in this thread e.g. CDM "Designers can do better" Working Well Together Respect for People New Construction Regs 'have your say' The forum is open to everyone involved with the Industry Please use the following link to access the site http://www.hse.gov.uk/construction/index.htm

Posted By Liam Mc Conalogue Unfortunately, the construction industry is rife with the mentality of deadlines (economic) and if these aren't met then heads will roll. Therefore site managers will of course be putting these deadlines at the top of their lists. I have met numerous senior managers who always advocate a pro health and safety attitude while I am around, however, as I know from experience, h&s is addressed secondly when my back is turned. We are in an age where economic reason still prevails above all others. And like every other industry it is a dog eat dog world with one subbie undercutting another. And the result -well we all know what that is- subbie A has excellent h&s attitude and of course this is included in the tender, however subbie B has a very competitive tender and his h&s attitude leaves a lot to be desired- which do you think gets selected 9 times out of 10? However, if more Directors and senior management including the QS are held legally accountable and stiffer sentences/fines are handed out for h&S negligence, then and only then, will we see a change in attitude towards h&s. If the senior guys hold h&s at the top of their priorities then the same will follow throughout.

Posted By Wazza Activator - Behaviour - Consequence Activators determine our actions, but the consequence motivates our behaviour. It is all about behaviour, from the plumber, joiner through to site management, QS through to those already with duties PS, PC etc. When will we all learn, it's not what we do, but how we do it that determines the consequence - DEATH, in the case of too many in the construction industry. The answer, look at the industry, the regulators and the clients - talk and help each other - together it can get better, but irrelevant consultations with the wrong people wont help any of us. Sorry to be so depressing. Try watching 'Think What If, Not If Only' it does hit home!! Regards Wazza

Posted By Alan Higgins We need more enforcement effort. Construction is a very competitive industry. The view of many contactors is that good standards of health and safety will cost them money which they cannot afford ….…and they are right. Although the overall accident rate in construction is poor, the chances of an individual contractor being involved in a serious accident are low and the chances of having serious enforcement action taken against them are also low. As mentioned in a post above, customers rarely take health and safety performance into account when awarding contracts so there is little incentive to improve. Better to do the job as cheaply as possible, operate with the minimum standards of health and safety you feel you can get away with and accept the risk that accidents might occur. Contactors have operated very successfully like this years so why should they change now? What can we do about it? Well how about increasing the chances of a contactor getting caught if he has poor health and safety standards by providing a massive increase in HSE enforcement effort? If contactors knew that were much more likely to get caught if they had poor health and safety standards, it would be worthwhile them investing more in health and safety. And they would know that all their competitors would be doing the same so they would be operating on a level playing field and would not lose out as a result when tendering. At the moment government is unwilling to fund more enforcement effort so the HSE are forced to try other lower cost strategies to reduce the construction accident rates. And it is clear that they are not working (How did we manage to reduce the amount of speeding on the UK’s roads? By a massive increase in enforcement effort through speed cameras. It is not very popular with those who want to speed but it has certainly worked in reducing vehicle speeds. By contrast, providing information to drivers on the effects of speeding and trying to persuade drivers to slow down has had only a very limited effect.)

Posted By Roger the Dodger Probably get shot down in flames for this one - but here goes, I agree with the thrust of most of the arguments put forward in this posting, however I think part of the problem is also the calibre/character of people employed in the construction industry at site operations level. Put it this way if you left school at 16 with a couple of GCSEs and some one said to you 'do you want to work in a warm office designing web sites/working in admin' etc or 'do you want to work outside in the cold/wet on a short term contract getting treated like crap' Guess which job most people with more than a few grey cells will go for? So its no surprise that they have no interest or motivation towards h&s - they probably don't even begin to understand its importance. Afraid in most cases I have seen, most site operatives are effectively the 'infantry' of the construction world but treated worse At least in the army even basic infantry soldiers get paid on a regular basis, regular food, accommodation etc

Posted By A SHARMAN Bill, I'd be keen to have a quick chat with you on this subject if you have a moment please. Please drop me a note to confirm? thanks,

Posted By Raymond Rapp Bill I have never worked in construction but the problems regarding safety are not dissimilar with my own industry (railways). Although I have recently joined a company who work in construction, nuclear and railways. There have been some very good examples posted, yet very few actually address the underlying problems. I am currently completing a PM/MBA degree in Construction and I intend to write my dissertation on the premise 'should health and safety be taught as a specific discipline in management courses?' Hence it is my view that those in the industry need a better awareness of the problems, and how to recognise and address those problems. Hopefully, my dissertation will tackle some of the underlying problems. Health and Safety is both a process and a concept - but good health and safety is a 'state of mind'. Therefore, I shall be concentrating on the philosophy rather than the actual processes. I intend to recommend a h&s module based on 4 or 5 principles as follows: H&S Law (history, case law, civil law etc) Managing Risk (perception, hazards etc) Management Systems Accident and Incident Investigation Safety Culture The above is intended to follow a logical structure and arguably the last (Safety Culture) is the most important. There would also be included examples of case studies and assignments, which would be designed to make managers to 'think for themselves.' In the first instance I would be interested in any construction orientated examples (case studies) of accidents and incidents. And if anyone has any general views or suggestions I would be glad to hear from you. Regards Ray