Posted By Simon Birks Hi, can anyone help me. I am currenlt doing some extra studying as i am attending a confined space train the trainer course. I have a query reference some procedures. A friend has given me a copy of the 'Water UK - The Classification & Management of Confined Space Entries First issue January 5th 2004'. My question is... these procedures differ from the L101 ACOP and confined space Regs 97 in the respect of confined space classification. Can anyone tell me why? And its effect. Also my Co uses Authorised Person's for confined spaces in the respect of Permits to work and safe systems of work, we have found out other organisations are using SPIC's - Specified person in charge for this role. Can any shed some light on this or me as i can not find anything in the confined space regs' & Acop's reference this. Many thanks if you are able to help. Thanks Simon

Posted By Simon Birks Sorry, will explain more. Instead of the 3 normal risk groups (Low,med,high) it has 4. NC1, 2, 3 and 4. NC - National classification. WATER UK Classification of Entries - Definitions NC1 low risk shallow entry (not exceeding 1.5m) with adequate natural or mechanical ventilation, where access is simple and unobstructed and there is no likely risk of flooding e.g. meter pits, valve chambers, booster-pumping stations, PRV chambers NC.2 Vertical direct unobstructed access with continuous attachment to a man riding hoist or similar mechanical rescue device NC.3 when it is not possible to have persons permanently attached to a safety line. Usually it will be a team entry which moves away from the entry point e.g. Man entry sewers, utility service subway tunnels, aqueducts and complex wet wells. Working without an attached rescue line and includes working away from the point of entry NC.4 Non standard entries involving complex operations which introduce additional risks and require specific controls and rescue arrangements e.g. mechanical hazards, physical complexity of system introduced hazards, enhanced specific intrinsic hazards. And they do not use the 3 normal Recognised Procedures - no entry, self rescue and Full BA entry. they have Self resuce and then Assisted Rescue. Thanks for replying heather

Posted By Stuart Nagle Simon. The confined spaces regulations were designed as a 'catch-all' document related to the hazards known to be present in confined spaces generally and the ACoP provides 'guidance' on how employers should carry out confined spaces operations. In various parts of industry, the water industry included, they recognise that confined spaces vary in complexity and configuration and type of work to be performed. In line with this they have examined the SSOW required and classified confined spaces generally into differing types and provided minimum SSOW procedures for each type, but actual work will be based on a risk assessment and a competent person making a decision as to what procedures will actually be implemented. Similar procedures exist in many companies and public bodies (e.g. MoD Defence Estate, Environment Dpt etc) were confined spaces are categorised (i.e. Type 1 or Type 2) in relation to type and configuration. In respect of the term Authorised Person, this eminates from the MoD Defence Estate, along with Authorising/Authorised Engineer, to identify those in control of works in confined spaces (and other areas e.g. electrical, mechanical, boilers & pressure systems, piped medical gases etc) and has been adopted by many braches of industry. It is purely a term of reference to a person appointed to undertake such management works in the issue of permits to work and assessment of persons competency to undertake the works, and to oversee the works, safety arrangements etc. So long as the systems employed comply with the requirements of L101 Confined Spaces Regulations 1997, there is no conflict, it is just companies doing what they do, namely organising their own systems and defining classifications for varying types of work they perform. Hope this answers you question... Regards... Stuart

Posted By Keith Ralph At a recent seminar on the new regulations, January 2006 is the proposed dates for the new courses to begin. I did ask if our engineers who have current certificates would still be able to work in confined spaces? I was told that the above date was for the new training course to begin, and that provided the trained person was deemed physically fit, and undertook an annaul assessment they could continue to enter and work in confined spaces until their certificates required renewal. I hope this helps. If you need any further information telephone me on 01206 756666