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Posted By bill smith
Following a fire risk assessment exercise, which followed guidance to include the question "Is the fire alarm system tested weekly", debate has arisen due to a property managers demand to "state where it says we must carry out weekly tests", the implication being that we don`t have to do tests weekly, but could do them monthly, or periodically, as we choose, to comfortably sit within existing financial/staffing scenarios.
While I am aware of the recommendation of BS 5839 Part 1 1998, which recommends a regime of testing that includes weekly testing of the fire alarm, I pose the question for members views/opinions, although I have a fair idea that I am right to insist upon weekly tests.
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Posted By Bill Elliott
If the premises are subject to a Certificate - that will determine the frequency, however, other than that - the HSE's Fire Safety An Employers Guide sets out recommendations to acheive "regular" maintenance and testing of fire safety equipment. In the event of a fire you would be required to produce evidence as to how your regime, if different to the recommendations, met or exceeded current best practice.
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Posted By Frank Cooper
Fire Safety - An Employers Guide says:
"Fire detection and fire warning systems
All manually operated fire alarms, such as rotary gongs, should be tested weekly to ensure that they work and can still be heard throughout the workplace.
Electrical fire detection and fire warning systems should be tested weekly for function and to check whether they can be heard throughout the area covered. Make sure they can be seen or heard, particularly by disabled people, and that voice alarms can be understood. They should also be inspected and tested, quarterly and annually, by a competent person."
I think that this information relates back to the BS. However, when I am conducting a fire audit I would expect the Fire Log Book to be annotated accordingly and that the weekly test of the fire alarm has been carried out from a different callpoint position each time.
Frank C
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Posted By Frank Hallett
Bill is correct about this being a matter that would be prescribed within a current Fire Certificate or a premises that has an exemption from the requirement to maintain a Fire Cert.
You must remember that the Home Office Guidance and the BS are Guidance, not an ACoP or the actual Regulation.
The FP[W] Regs require a suitable risk assessment and this may lead you to decide that the fire warning system should be tested weekly but that the fire detection system should be tested daily - or vice versa or any other combination that is approriate to your undertaking!
I differentiate between detection and warning deliberately as there is little point in testing the alarm system if the detection system isn't tested as well. I accept that for the most basic of systems where the alrm is actuated solely by "break glass call points" that the whole system [other than the people who operate it] is being tested, but one smoke, heat or other detector linked into the system will require an appropriate mainteance and testing regime that may be considerably less than the ubiquitous "annual" test.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By shaun mckeever
The latest BS for fire alarms is BS5839 Part 1 2002. This still recommends that the fire alarm be tested weekly as did BS 5839 Part 1 1998.
As Frank and others have said BS5839 is recommendations not requirements, however, you stated you have a property manager. It sounds therefore like the property is large enough to have a fire certificate. The majority of fire certificates will state that you must install and maintain a fire alarm system in accordance with the recommendations in BS5839. This statement therefore makes the recommendations in BS5839 become requirements enforceable by law.
Fire certificates are due to be abolished next April (but don't hold your breath) and be replaced by the RRO. The RRO clearly states that there should not be a reduction in standards and so even after fire certificates are replaced there will still be a requiremet to maintain and test the fire alarm in accordance with BS5839.
I hope this helps.
Shaun McKeever
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Posted By bill smith
Thank you for your replies which are helpful. Apologies in omitting to say the property is in the educational sector, which I understand is not subject to a fire certificate.
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Posted By Frank Hallett
Yeah Bill, that would have helped! You've also resisted telling us what sort of educational establishment and the age ranges accommodated; which should also be taken into consideration.
Starting again then! The fact that the premises is an educational establishment does change some of the imperatives regarding testing. At the most basic, the testing should reflect the actual and expected level of casual [and unfortunately - deliberate] damage foresseable from the occupancyand really does require that the detection systems are thoroughly checked rather more frequently than the "annual" regime.
Greater attention should be paid to areas where the students congregate with less supervision, and also any educational areas where the teachers conduct demonstrations, and also the staff rooms, kitchens and other "relaxing" areas.
I hope that there is no other relevant info.
Frank Hallett
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Posted By Bill Elliott
The Fire Safety Guide produced by the Architects & Building branch of the DfEE - ISBN 0 11 271040 9 - dated 8/2000 requires: Fire detection systems should be regularly tested by the user and serviced by a trained and qualified engineer in accordance with the requirements of BS5839
No argument then
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Posted By Mark Eden
Agreeing to the previous responces I suggest you give your property manager a good kick up the *@#% and tell him to get on with weekly tests. I can't see that cost comes into it Tell that to the courts when a call point doesn't work because it was to expensive to carry out a weekly test.
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Posted By John Donaldson
I notice from Bill's email address that he is in either a FE collage or University.
When you have a large Campus with numerous fire detection systems it is simply not practical to test every system every week.
Our approach is to test all accommodation weekly, with the academic buildings tested on a rolling monthly programme. This routine has been discussed with our Fire Brigade and is acceptable to them.
I might add that we do have modern addressable systems.
Dare I say at the end of the day it comes down to risk assessment and not simply following the book
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Posted By Robin B
We test our alarm call points on a rolling weekly basis and the provider does a full system check once yearly if that helps
Robin
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Posted By A. Fergusson
I was under the impression that fire certificates would in fact be replaced in the latter part of this year. Have I been misinformed?
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Posted By Terry Reading
Andrew
To briefly answer your query........yes, you are slightly misinformed, but only in the timing!
The new fire regime is supposed to kick-in around April - June '06. but this could change - again!! It's already been delayed.
Until then, fire certificates are still required and need to be complied with.
T
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Posted By bill smith
Thanks to all who replied to this thread. The issue has been resolved satisfactorily through reasoned discussion, and the fire alarms will be tested weekly.
It is reassuring to know that so many informed colleagues constructively contribute to this forum, which is a great help in resolving safety issues often not understood by others.
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