Posted By Ian stevenson TechSP We had a fire officer visit today to give advice on fire compliance, whilst on site he commented on the amount of extinguishers we had. I asked the about hose reels and he said we may as well remove them and cap them off to reduce any risk of legionella. Was he referring to any dormant water in the pipes or the water source. Regards Ian Stevenson

Posted By JohnMacCarthy25 Hiya Although I'm not an expert in this area, I would imagine he is referring to the risk due to stagnant water. You should ask the question how often do they get drained off and is it recorded? Also are there any drinking water lines from the same pipework, if so then perhaps you have further issues

Posted By Paul Oliver A couple of points. I don't think a fire would mind getting legionella:-) The hose reels should only be used by trained and competent people i.e Fire Fighters. Contact your local Fire Brigade HQ and find out if they are aware of this issue and what control measures they have in place. Doe your fire risk assessment allow the removal of the hoses? Paul

Posted By TBC Good points amongst the answers here. The fire brigade may use your hose reels if a dire situation occurs and they lose their own supply for some reason. They will not normally rely on the equipment of others. I would suggest you flush the systems to rid them of any risk especially if any branches go to potable water outlets, but if you decide to get rid of them altogether then ensure that you go right back to a junction in order to remove any deadlegs, dont just cap off. Please remember that the first flush of the system will be the one with the highest risk to local personnel depending on the history of the equipment. Hope this helps.

Posted By Mike Palfrey I don't want to hijack the thread, but did anyone spot last week that hospital managers, etc. will not be prosecuted for cases of MRSA and hygiene problems? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4683691.stm How about "ministers expressed concern that hospitals might not disclose relevant details in order to avoid prosecution" I particularly enjoyed the bit from Dr Gill Morgan about breaching codes of practice and how singling out managers won't help. Working on the theory of number of deaths from legionella vs. deaths from MRSA, can we expect a similar reasoning and dispensation over legionnella? just a thought Mike

Posted By Kevin Walker If I remember rightly when water based extinguishers are serviced the top is removed if the water is dirty or cloudy it is not replaced but a chlorine tablet is dropped in. Can't be that good for it. I would agree that this is all a bit overplayed and the risk would be very low. kevin

Posted By Michael Hayward Just to broaden the discussion a bit - don't forget the static water in sprinkler systems. This can also be subject to legionella contamination, and its something you should think about during maintenance work Cheers Mick

Posted By MichaelM Re- the potential for legionella in the fire hose etc As the water comes from a reservoir which will have a potential for legionella being present and the fact that there are failures in the water purification systems from time to time, there is a potential for the conditions to be met for a high titre growth of the bacteria. This then becomes a problem in the water droplets when the water is released. Having the system flushed out then potentially puts those performing the task at risk. Do they have the correct training equipment etc to ensure it is not breathed in? One option that hasn't been mentioned is making both the hose and the sprinkler system system into a dry riser set up. Thus removing the water from the system and therefore the risk of legionella growth. When the water is needed in the event of a fire, it is then supplied. Problem sorted. I have also never heard of a tap water supply being directly linked to either a sprinkler system or fire hose reel system.

Posted By Nigel Singleton BSc Checklist 3 from the Legionella ACOP suggests only one control measure for hose reels, namely to avoid exposure to spray during testing, It is unlikley that enough sediment or scale (food to bacteria) would build up in a system that is of such high pressure when it is discharged.

Posted By Frank Hallett Good morning Ian. The discussion regarding the potential for exposure to Legionnella has been interesting and, in fairness, addresses your initial question well. I have a view that the real question that you should consider is similar to that raised by Adrian Clifton. What function are your hose-reels supposed to fulfill within your emergency response procedure? If you have properly trained and supported fire teams whose function is to attack a fire using the hose-reels, then you must learn to deal with the potential for Legionella, H2S, high chlorine levels, and other substances possibly being present when the water is discharged from any point of the system. If the hose-reels have originally been required by the Fire Service such as would be found in a shopping centre [unlikely in view of your observation], then you will also have very specific requirements for use, maintenance and testing. If the hose-reels are there "because of any other reason" [most likely given the info provided], then you should be asking some extremely serious and detailed questions about expectations in regards to fire response and why hose-reels are seen as necessary. If it's to keep insurance premiums down or to otherwise fail to address the real requirements of fire safety legislation; then it must be considered extremely suspect at best. Incidentally, the fire service will not normally even consider using any equipment that they have not been party to specifying, testing and routinely using; not even if their supplies fail as well developed and focussed paranoia and lack of trust in anything that they haven't tested themselves helps to keep UK firefighters alive! Incidentally, if the FS water supplies fail, the internal hose-reels will probably have gone long before! Good luck with resolving the real problems. Frank Hallett

Posted By J Knight There is a serious misconception in one of the posts here. Drinking water contains minimal amounts of Chlorine, and I would be surprised if Bromine was present. STW quote a figure of 0.19 mg/l of Chlorine in rural Coventry (for example), well below effective biocidal levels. Cold water systems are inimical to Legionella purely because they are cold, and any micro-organisms present will reproduce only slowly, not because they are full of halogens. Water with biocidal levels of halogens would be severly tainted, John