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Posted By Jason McQueen
I know this isnt directly a H&S problem but more of a personnel issue but I jsut hoping to canvas for ideas and suggestions.
We currently have a situation at work wereby operatives are using relatively minor accidents to justify having time off work.
They'll continue to work their shift for a while and then go home stating that the injury is hurting (usually a minor bruise as a result of striking a stationary object etc). As we dont have any qualified occupational health on site, the policy has been to allow them to leave on advice that they seek GP/hospital opinion, who invariably advise rest for a few days.
This normally has the effect of taking the accident over the three day reportable rule thus reporting is done. The problem is that the production managers are being assessed on their level of reportable injuries and feel that they are being unfairly punished by people who are effectively working the system to their advantage as obviously they cannot be disciplined for abscence due to a work related injury.
We cannot then turn around and say that in reality you were fit for work when they have GP/hospital opinion that they should take rest. And it also unlikely that we can change the KPI of the managers from using reportables.
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Posted By Ron Hunter
Can your Organisation afford this level of absence? If not, tell the workforce of the consequences if it doesn't improve?
That's the hardball answer. Get a group of employees together to come up with a plan of action to reduce workplace minor injuries, implement the do-able suggestions. In any event let all parties know that you/the employer are focussing on this issue.
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Posted By jason telford
You need to bring in a policy to cover the procedures for accidents and train the workers and managers
look to eliminate the causes of accidents and try to change the culture
If it is the same people regulary offending then go to discipline them
Staff have duties to report all accidents/incidents
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Posted By Merv Newman
Jason, I think your opening line was correct. This is more of a personnel issue. Where I have met this kind of situation before it has been fairly obviously due to people not wanting to be at work (I know this applies to most of us but there are degrees !)
What, for example, are the stress levels in your workplace ? Do you work in a crummy, noisy, dirty building, with crummy etc machines making a crummy etc product with crummy etc managers and supervisors ? one or all of the above could cause people to want to cut short their exposure time to that kind of environment. Blaming absence on an accident is like a free "get out of jail" card
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Posted By Jason McQueen
Hi Merv,
None of the above really. Its more down to individuals using the opportunity to extend their time off as unofficial holiday and most of the culprits have had a history of time and attendance issues but know that they wont be disciplined if they use their accident as a reason.
For example we had one person who was refused holiday due to short notice - hey presto they have a (Very minor) accident but claim that they have injured themselves and been advised to rest.
One idea someone suggested was require the proof of attendance and treatment via the GP/A&E when an employee declares themselves unfit as a result of an accident but this will only go so far. We all know how readily GP's tend to sign people off work.
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Posted By Deborah Bolton
Jason
Are you investigating all your accidents? including taking statements from the injured party and any alleged witnesses - which you then ask them to sign and date. We have started this recently and the level of "erroneous accidents" has dropped. We also bring in those with more than 1 reported accident (lost time or not) in a quarter to discuss any problems they might be having at work or home including training needs, risk assessments, PPE etc - a subtle hint in there about the cost implications to the Co and how this impacts on workplace improvements also helps to focus attention.
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Posted By Dave Daniel
Your last respondent seems to have hit the nail on the head. I recall that during the 3-day week our accident rate (major car producer) virtually dropped to zero because people wanted the money. One slinger turned up and worked in the press shop with a broken finger.
At various times Rover also introduced a system of welfare calls to check how people were ... and if you weren't at home with "DeFlu" when they called you'd be hauled over the coals. They also looked out for absence patterns (footie match dates etc). It wasn't all like the "Red Robbo" days!
This did bring down the absence rate.
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Posted By jackw.
Hi seems to me like a case of “don’t know what to do with this” ... “let’s give the crap to the safety guy”. Seems to me that whilst there may well be issue about the number of minor accident in your workplace and that tying in reportable injuries to managers performance is not the greatest idea.
The real issue here … these guys are taking the pis. Seems to me your managers in general and your HR people in particular need to toughen up and set about disciplining these “chancers”. If not then you can kiss your profits and jobs goodbye. I assume they get paid when they are off?. The introduction of a lead in period say 3 days without sick pay might encourage them to stay at work. Harsh, it may be viewed as such by some, but it is better than letting these people ruin your business and risk the jobs of others, who work hard and do not abuse the system.
Oh and before my Tu friends jump in and scream of how unfair it is on the poor employees. I have been an active trade unionist and “lefty” all my life. But the fight has always been as much against abusers of benefits achieved as those who wouldn’t yield benefits to workers (ok off my soapbox).
Memo to HR manager “get yer finger out"…
sorry but I really get mad at the number of times HR (better paid) refer difficult issues to H&S just because there may be some link to H&S..in this instance minor injuries.
Amen!!!!!
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Posted By Simone Plaut
May I suggest using an inexpensive nurse led occ health service where personnel MUST discuss sickness absence with the nurse whenever they call in sick.
this seems to have quite an effect on this sort of thing.
you could also issue a card that staff must get signed /stamped by GP or A&E to prove that they have attended.
if someone is playing hookie, they wont want to spend their day off waiting for hours in A&E but if they claim to be off with an injury then this is essential to ensure that they are safe to return to work afterwards.
Simone Plaut MIOSH former Radiographer working in the NHS.
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Posted By Paul Michael Matthews
The regulations included a 3 day absence as a reportable incident as a measure of the severity of an injury. Therefore if a minor accident that should not constitute a person being away from work for 3 days and the person likes taking time off work, this is going to severely skew your site performance as well as the departmental stats. The solution that we have arrived at is not to give sick pay for the first week of absence (this is legal). This has had the affect of removing the tendancy for the workers to cheat the system.
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Posted By J Knight
Agree entirely with Jackw, this is an abuse of a system designed to be a benefit for those in genuine need, and it is, at the end of the day, about HR and general management as much as H&S. One tweak to existing absence rules which can help in the most flagrant cases is to retain paid sick leave but to run it on a rolling year, rather than a fixed calendar period. We have introduced this; prior to its introduction we used to get people ringing HR asking how much sick leave they still had left. And again, I too am very chary of employee bashing, but it is an abuse,
John
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Posted By Thomas Elliott
I know of an organisation that didn't actually report these accidents/incidents to the HSE. Instead, called the HSE to inform them about their situation and what the opinion from the HSE was.
The HSE apparently informed them that they did not need to report these incidents. I have to say I would have be inclined to report these incidents, however should the circumstance come up now I think I would ask the HSE for advise first.
The HSE are there to help us as an organisation as well as to help individuals from personal injury or harm.
I know that doesn't really answer your question on the personnel side but could be a way of keeping your accident/incident statistics to a more realistic level.
I appreciate that this is very much open to interpretation, but if in doubt ask the HSE for advice.
Thomas
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