Posted By Frank Hallett Very interesting John - what's your point linking the case result and your heading? Frank Hallett

Posted By Mark Talbot I find myself agreeing with the award too. Wouldn't like to be the injured party, eh?

Posted By Mark Talbot In case anyone wants to know, apparently these are the symptoms of the disease: Major : Facial pain/pressure/fullness Nasal obstruction/blockage Nasal or postnasal discharge/purulence (by history or physical examination) Hyposmia/anosmia Fever (in acute rhinosinusitis only) Minor : Headaches Fever (other than acute rhinosinusitis) Halitosis Fatigue Dental pain Cough Ear pain/pressure/fullness (Source: American Academy of Family Physicians) Not disabling, but pretty miserable I think.

Posted By Jim Walker I’m not at all surprised. You would expect both the teacher and the LA to know this. I come from neighbouring Leicestershire; some 10 years ago when my lads went up to the senior school, I told the school that I would not allow my kids to do craft lessons until their woodwork LEV was installed to the level required to control wood dust. The teachers had no idea what I was talking about. The answer I finally received from the LA was that although they were aware it was a deficient system and that wood dust was a know hazard, there was no money available. It continues to infuriate me that (even on this forum) public bodies and employees think that lack of money is an adequate reason not to comply with their statutory duty. And so we have this waste of tax payers money as well as the sick teacher.

Posted By J Knight Craigy, You have a point, but it may be only half the story. Teacher in unpopular subject, probably subject to funding pressure because his subject won't help the budding students of tomorrow on their way to a career in the meeja, which is what they all want. He may know that what he is doing has associated hazards, but if he doesn't do it it won't get taught, and there will never be any money for LEV; so what's he supposed to do? He'll take risks, possibly while informing his students that what he is doing is not best practice. This is why s2 duties are on the employer; they have the money to affect changes, the pbi, even if they're 'teachers' just have to get on with it and keep their heads down. OK, I'm speculating, and as has been said already we can't really judge without the facts, but maybe even though he was a professional (even a head of department) he had no more real control over his workplace than many other employees, John

Posted By Craigy ok so the big question is how do we know that this has been addressed?? Are our current teaching professionals equipped with the knowldege...equipment......LEV's..etc (and budget)??

Posted By Jim Walker Craigy, In the instance I mentioned it was eventually put right. My kids had left before it was done however. I later used the same college for a night school course on wood turning. By then the LEV was excellent. Our tutor, NOT a teacher but a bloke who had worked in the real world, was spot on with his H&S practice & advice ( I never let on I knew anything about H&S).

Posted By Karen Todd Jim, I think you have hit the nail on the head: "NOT a teacher but a bloke who had worked in the real world". I know quite a few school teachers, all of whom qualified at the age of 22, having done a 3 year degree and 1 year PGCE. None have any "real world" experience apart from maybe a 12 week summer placement. Most lecturers at tech I've come across however have significant industry experience. I am still haunted by an incident in chemistry class at school where 2 chemistry teachers (one with a PhD) decided it would be a good idea to crack off the top of a bottle of silicon tetrachloride with a hammer and chisel because it was "stuck on", resulting in bottle exploding and classroom being filled with cloud of HCl gas, teachers running out of the classroom leaving us behind, us figuring it would be for the best to leave the classroom and shut the door behind us, fire brigade called to the school, etc. Other little gems from my school days include, "I don't think you're allowed to smell it any more (benzene), in fact I don't think we're allowed to use it any more, but I still have this big bottle of it here and I quite like the smell of it" and, "It's only the fire drill. We'll continue on with our classs"... Karen

Posted By Robert K Lewis In my day we wre encouraged to taste dilute acids to show that the lemon taste is acidity rather than anything else. Pass the sulphuric for my salad dressing please! Also we managed (legitimately with teachers consent) to do the following 1) Make Ammonium Iodide - A nice minor explosive. 2) Distil alcohol from fermetation and test for proof by making gunpowder to test it. 3) Handle chemicals and solvents without gloves. 4) Use blue asbestos rope for insulation. It really does show the ignorance that existed and sometimes still exists. Witness the teacher imprisoned for manslaughter after the river walking fatality on a school trip. I find it hard to know quite where the fault lies at times. Yes I am under 60 - BOB

Posted By Robert K Lewis John And my first industrial placement at university was involved in the distillation of Glacial acetic acid and 100% Hydrogen peroxide to make per-acetic acid. 1 in 4 distillations never reached a conclusion - that was why the process never took off industrially. Bob

Posted By Ken Taylor And I can remember passing the large globule of Mercury around the class from hand to hand - something to do with specific gravity I seem to recall. They would be considered as mad as a hatter to do this today. One problem with schools and other educational institutions seems to be that the head of the establishment is not an expert in all the various subjects taught and relies upon the individual subject heads to 'keep up to date' and to both do and teach 'the right thing'. The likelihood of this seems to be inversely proportional to the length of time in the profession and leads me to suspect that many are not keeping themselves 'up to date' (professional development) or not being afforded this type of refresher training. When brought in to look at a college teaching building skills some years ago, I was horrified at some the practices being taught to the students (both by word and example). Every department required intervention to protect students from cement dust, wood dust, hot liquids, heavy loads, unfenced machinery, fall risks, etc. No wonder we see such bad examples out in 'the real world' when they are prepared for this experience in such a manner! With my current work in the private education sector, I spend a lot of time keeping up to date with health and safety requirements and guidance in a considerable range of subjects taught - obtaining the various publications and sending them to the schools, etc. Rightly or wrongly, this is based upon the assumption that they will not be doing this themselves.