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#1 Posted : 19 August 2005 13:58:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Lewis Can anyone help me with my query? Here is the outline; my employer, a UK registered company, makes medical implants, hip joints and the like. The surgeons who fit these are trained in Austria, on cadavers. The surgeons come from all over the world for this training. My risk assessment of this work is the strangest and most unpleasant I have ever done and covers everything from Manual Handling (in the most literal sense) to Pathogens, all of which I can deal with. However, if a surgeon were to contract something nasty from one of the cadavers, (admittedly not too likely as they are all from known sources), where would the liability lie? I think I know the answer, but opinions from you guys would be useful. Best Regards John p.s any jokes dropped in are for your own amusement, I've heard them all before.
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#2 Posted : 19 August 2005 15:30:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Jerman We have to get away from the idea that injury (any loss) is followed by liability. There is a middle stage in this relating to negligence. Which is in turn linked to reasonable foreseeability and competency. If your company has done everything that it should in order to cover everything that's reasonably foreseeable and can prove it - where's the negligence? If the disease (whatever) comes totally left field, where's the reasonableness? Hence, probably no liability. If the medic (bit general) doesn't follow the guidance (ie application of their competency) despite being supervised etc - I'd be knocking on their door - assuming that they survive. This stuff has to be argued out in light of the facts and giving general answers is tricky. In short a breach needs to be a negligent breach and not simply there's been injury ergo there's liability.
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#3 Posted : 19 August 2005 16:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Lewis Chris Thanks for the response. It is basically what I had in mind. At present the systems leave a little to be desired and although it is arguably a safe system of work, I have identified a number of areas where it can be improved. As you might expect the RA already runs to 12 pages of reasonably close type and so far I have not got onto pathogens and immunisation, that comes in the next few weeks when I visit a specialist in the field. Assuming the modified procedures are put into place and managed properly I would expect that the risks will drop to a very reasonable level. As it happens, the guy who works there wears shorts and clogs with a really disgusting warehouse coat. He seems to be about 70 and totally unaffected by doing this job for the last 50 of them. Best Regards John
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#4 Posted : 19 August 2005 16:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Jerman Thanks for bringing such a vision to my Friday afternoon, John. Glad I don't have your job. Incidentally I work for your name's sake -John Lewis! Sounds like there needs to be a training needs analysis and competency upgrade. I've always said that you can lead a hippy to water, but you can't make him wash. Best of luck.
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#5 Posted : 19 August 2005 16:37:00(UTC)
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Posted By Dazmo Hi John, I deal with grave diggers who every now and then have to exhume bodies. I found the following publication useful when comepleting risk assessmets etc. Controlling the risks of infection at work from human remains: http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/web01.pdf Hope it helps. Kind regards Dazmo
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#6 Posted : 19 August 2005 16:57:00(UTC)
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Posted By Michael Hosking As you say and from my past experience in hospital morgues, the control measures have been in place for many years, though the medical people tend to call it:control of infection. It is mainly a case of training and PPE and even though they are foreigners they have a duty to co-operate and it has to be the hard line of here is the PPE and if you do not wear it you do not work here.
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#7 Posted : 22 August 2005 11:10:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Lewis Dazmo, Michael & Chris Thanks for your contributions; the HSE publication is fascinating in an odd sort of way, and certainly makes a change from the construction and maintenance safety I did before. I guess that the field that three of us four are in is not exactly stuffed full of safety folk so I am pleased that you have responded. Once again, thanks for your help. Regards John
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