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#1 Posted : 22 August 2005 16:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Harris Completing a print room COSHH assessment for using Ammonia Solution in 2litre containers, I was concerned by what appeared to be conflicting advice on the safety data sheet regarding flammability. The hazard ID indicated Ammonia to be a Flammable Liquefied Gas Handling & storage indicated it should be kept away from ignition sources (inc static discharge) Exposure controls indicated not to smoke while handling and that the Flammability range is 15 - 30 vol% in air. The hazard ID finally said "owing to this substance's low flammabilty, it is classed as non-flammable for transport purposes. We use Ammonia day in day out within our print room which abounds with static & although we have LEV the place still reeks of it. Auto ignition is rated at 630C so it appears I have nothing to worry about regarding flammability & fire risk. Am I right and just being mislead by the Safety Data Sheet info? All/any advice appreciated Chris Harris
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#2 Posted : 22 August 2005 16:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By peter gotch Chris, Your print room will reek [to you] of ammonia at levels well below the workplace exposure limit which is a very small fraction of the lower explosive limit. Your solution is just that, not liquefied gas, as used in e.g. refrigeration equipment. Fire risk is negligible, if not non-existent in the type of process to which you refer. Regards, Peter
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#3 Posted : 22 August 2005 17:32:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Chris Your print room is using a solution of ammonium hydroxide in water. The proportion of the ammonium hydroxide will be about 20% if the specific gravity is 0.88. As this solution is 80% water, it is non-flammable. However, the solution will liberate ammonia and I suppose that there is an outside chance that a buildup of this liberated gas could be a flammability risk in a confined space. The LEL of ammonia is 16% (160,000ppm); anybody inhaling much over the WEL (25 ppm) is likely to evacuate the area PDQ. Paul
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#4 Posted : 23 August 2005 11:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Chris Please don't take this the wrong way, but your posting highlights a common problem - that people with little or no chemical knowledge are often required to undertake CoSHH assessments. Fortunately you have had the good sense to ask the question on this forum and have received replies which should be sufficient to help you complete the assessment. There must be many organisations out there who have not grasped that CoSHH assessments need to be done by, or involve a suitably competent person.
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#5 Posted : 23 August 2005 13:16:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis Paul As the famous pedant, along with one or two others, the solution is ammonia in water which is Ammonium Hydroxide, not a solution of ammonium hydroxide in water. However the SG statement is what I expect for these old style, but widely used machines. It also illustrates the inability of suppliers/manufacturers to provide a decent MSDS relevant to the material supplied. It is so easy to just give the information for the active ingredients ie Ammonia in this case and then provide misleading statements based on the ingredient alone not as supplied, as here the information is for Anhydrous Ammonia supplied in cylinders. The anhydrous material is flammable in air but as others point out you will feel the itch in any moist areas and be driven away by the fumes long before you will be present in a fire. Industrially ammonia fires have been known but they are considerably difficult to induce. In passing I have seen it burnt in a school experiment but it required pure oxygen to assist the flame stability. It will also burn when mixed with Nitric Oxide but again I cannot see that being a problem for you. Bob
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#6 Posted : 23 August 2005 13:53:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Bob Are you asserting that I am the famous pedant or that you are!? Paul
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#7 Posted : 23 August 2005 14:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert K Lewis I along with one or two others have been around long enough to clock up close to the ton between us in this profession. So I admit always to being that bit pernickety- its a privilege of age as well. Wish suppliers were a little bit this way!!! Bob
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#8 Posted : 23 August 2005 15:01:00(UTC)
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Posted By John Webster Bob OK, the pedant gloves are off :-). I let Paul's terminalogical inexactitude pass as I didn't think that correcting it helped Chris. However, dilute ammonia solution is an equilibrium mixture of dissociated and undissociated ammonia in water giving rise to ammonium and hydroxide ions, and doubtless a few hydroxonium ions for good measure.
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#9 Posted : 23 August 2005 22:49:00(UTC)
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Posted By Chris Harris To Peter, Paul, John & Robert a very big thank you. Now from what youv'e all told me then 2L bottles of lemonade should have a MSDS for having Co2 in solution- No? Asphyxiant gas & all that. or perhaps it does! Cheers chaps.
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#10 Posted : 24 August 2005 09:59:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Chris Lemonade is perfectly safe as long as you don't inhale! Paul
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#11 Posted : 24 August 2005 12:08:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeff Watt There is a lot of ammonia flying around on this post and it smells like a load of old....well never mind. Can anyone recommend a helpful chemical safety reference for Chris and other non boffins out there struggling with MSDS's and COSHH.
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#12 Posted : 24 August 2005 13:44:00(UTC)
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Posted By Paul Leadbetter Sax's Dangerous Properties of Industrial Materials is good but expensive; a quick search on Amazon.com gave a price of $995 in hardback! Of course, MSDSs are freely available on the web these days; I usually start at http://hazard.com/msds. Paul
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#13 Posted : 24 August 2005 13:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By Jeff Watt Nice one Paul I use Oxford Uni's chem site for some general chem info http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/#MSDS It's OK but not a definitive source for the workplace COSHH assessment.
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#14 Posted : 24 August 2005 14:13:00(UTC)
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Posted By Bill Elliott Try ILO encyclopaedia - access it on the web www.ilo.org.encyclopaedia/ - with reference to the ammonia - tag on ?d&nd=857091122 after the forward slash in the web address above.
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#15 Posted : 24 August 2005 14:23:00(UTC)
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