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#1 Posted : 12 September 2005 09:23:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karen Todd Hi All, Am a bit confused about children on work experience. Found the following statement: "The Education Act 1996 (Section 560) states that the general prohibitions on the employment of children do not apply to those who are in their last two years of compulsory schooling, if that employment is arranged by the local education authority (or the governing body of a school on its behalf) in order to provide such children with work experience as part of their education. Such employment is still prohibited, however, where legislation expressly states that it applies to persons of less than, or not over, a specific age expressed as a number of years. Section 23 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 expressly prohibits a child of 16 or under from taking part in activities in which his or her life or limbs are endangered. Children may not be employed on work experience where legislation prohibits the employment of a young person". My confusion: in one bit it says that it is OK for children to do work experience except where the legislation preventing it makes reference to a certain age; but then the last sentence makes reference to "young person" rather than age. The crux of my query: Can children do work experience in a factory? Or are they still prevented from doing so by legislation such as the Factories Act 1961; Employment of Women, Young Persons and Children Act 1920; or the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 (and any subsequent amendments)? I'm having nightmare times with this one. Can't get hold of the original legislation in its entirity, or all the subsequent repeals, revocations & amendments to clarify. Regards, Karen
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#2 Posted : 12 September 2005 10:03:00(UTC)
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Posted By Robert Paterson Hi Karen Have you looked at the Health and Safety (Young Persons) Regulation 1997 Regards Robert Paterson
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#3 Posted : 12 September 2005 10:09:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Karen, A young person is someone over school leaving age but under 18, so the section causing the confusion is saying that if 17 year olds cannot work in a given employment, then children (16 & under) may not do work experience there. As I understand it the criterion to use in judging whether a child can do work experience is risk based; where there is a significant uncontrolled risk a child canot work in the area or process concerned, even if it is necessary for their training, a young perons can only if it necessary for their training, John
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#4 Posted : 12 September 2005 10:29:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karen Todd Hi Robert, Yes, had a look, but they were revoked by the Management Regs 1999. John, thanks for the clarification. The Employment of Women, Children and Young Persons Act 1920 prohibits the employment of a child in any industrial undertaking (i.e. a factory), but I think that the Employment Act 1989 may have amended this. So confusing %( Karen
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#5 Posted : 12 September 2005 10:47:00(UTC)
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Posted By J Knight Hi Karen, Just printed off HSG165 from HES Direct, and Paragraph 11 says 'Children below the MSLA must not be employed in industrial undertakings such as factories, construction sites etc except when on approved work experience schemes'. This does beg the question of what 'approved' means but otherwise answers your question. The criterion for decision is risk based, have a look at http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg364.pdf for the specific risks concerned and how you should evaluate them, John
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#6 Posted : 12 September 2005 11:14:00(UTC)
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Posted By Brian Hagyard Karen, I’m no expert on work experience, but I think the prohibited areas of child employment are those in the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 Section 18(2) and 20(2). These areas are: No child may be employed: a) In a cinema, theatre, discotheque, dance hall or night club, except in connection with a performance given entirely by children. b) To sell or deliver alcohol, except in sealed containers. c) To deliver fuel oils d) in a commercial kitchen e) to collect or sort refuse f) in any work more than three metres above ground level or below floor level g) having harmful exposure to physical, biological or chemical agent h) to collect money, sell or canvas door to door i) in work with exposure to adult material j) telephone sales and canvassing k) in a slaughter house or part of butchers shop. l) In an amusement arcade , fairground etc. m) In the personal care activities of residential care or nursing homes. These regulations are usually enforced by the Local Authority Education Department (Used to be the Education Social Worker but I think that title has changed) so they may be able to offer more help. With regard part of your initial question about work in factories, I think (g) above may apply, i.e. work having harmful exposure to physical agents, but I suppose it depends on the type of factory, risk assessments, working practices etc. I also think the Children and Young Persons Act is to be reviewed soon. Brian.
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#7 Posted : 12 September 2005 13:56:00(UTC)
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Posted By Karen Todd Thanks all. I'll go by the phrase in HSG165. Regards, Karen
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#8 Posted : 12 September 2005 14:51:00(UTC)
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Posted By stephen J Smith Karen, There is a big difference between work experience and employment. The local education authority and the HSE have a publication on school placements. There is machinery which these school placements & young persons cannot work on which, from memory, is listed in the Management Regs. The gov't want school placements to help with getting kids into work. I have school placements in my company and with a suitable work plan and associated risk assessment along with a chaperone for each area, we manage quite well. If you need any more help email me. regards Stephen Smith
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